The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[doog]

The "marketing bollocks" comes into play once you've made your risk assessment.

I get where'e your coming from but even further back than the Greeks (Ok ..the previous helmet threads) the mainstay of accepted choice was risk assessment...

Why does risk assessment suddenly = marketing ...Its a new one to me.

 

[srw]

Let's wind back a bit. Here's a sequence of quotes.

That's quite right. And when they risk-assess, they should have good evidence to help them, not just some marketing bollocks.

Which seems reasonable. People are terrible at risk assessment. People should be supported in risk assessment. But most of what's available in the real world isn't neutral material that supports risk assessment, it's marketing material.

The presumption by some that 'marketing' comes before the natural human instinct to protects ones head is slightly debatable..

That's an odd thing to say. As @martint235 pointed out, there is no natural human instinct to protect one's head by covering it with a helmet. There is a natural human instinct to protect it by getting it out of the way of something that might damage it. But marketing material has created a situation where, for one activity only, a helmet is seen by many as sensible head protection.

I should acknowledge that originally that seems to have been done with the best of intentions - by people who had a limited understanding of risk because they hadn't had the experience we have now had. And so we are now in a situation where....

Eh? The marketing is all about implying 'protection' that the product does not in fact offer.

 

[MontyVeda]

...
As I paid at the till the sales guy said "should be made law you know"..............

it'd make his sales job a lot easier wouldn't it... other than that, why else would he say it?

 

[martint235]

I get where'e your coming from but even further back than the Greeks (Ok ..the previous helmet threads) the mainstay of accepted choice was risk assessment...

Why does risk assessment suddenly = marketing ...Its a new one to me.

I think you're missing the link. Risk assessment doesn't suddenly equal marketing. Risk assessment equals a requirement for action even including where that action is the simple acceptance of risk. However that action can be influenced by many things: others perception of your risk particularly where they believe they share the risk (a loved one); peer pressure; or marketing (you believe you have a risk, I have this snake oil that will mitigate that risk for you)

 

[Justinslow]

it'd make his sales job a lot easier wouldn't it... other than that, why else would he say it?

Well he did go on to say how he commuted in London for several years by bike several years ago and had seen lots of accidents......

 

[doog]

there is no natural human instinct to protect one's head by covering it with a helmet. There is a natural human instinct to protect it by getting it out of the way of something that might damage it. But marketing material has created a situation where, for one activity only, a helmet is seen by many as sensible head protection.

Getting it out the way ?

 

[srw]

Getting it out the way ?

I don't know about you, but I've got something called a neck.

 

[doog]

I think you're missing the link. Risk assessment doesn't suddenly equal marketing. Risk assessment equals a requirement for action even including where that action is the simple acceptance of risk. However that action can be influenced by many things: others perception of your risk particularly where they believe they share the risk (a loved one); peer pressure; or marketing (you believe you have a risk, I have this snake oil that will mitigate that risk for you)

As I said I get your point, my point was that risk assessment was the mainstay of naysayers in the helmet debate in years gone by and one to which most of us adhere to. Marketing I accept can influence some but as posted by myself and others *and ignored ....its certainly not the overriding criteria that some would like to think it is....

 

[doog]

I don't know about you, but I've got something called a neck.

excellent

 

[srw]

As I said I get your point, my point was that risk assessment was the mainstay of naysayers in the helmet debate in years gone by and one to which most of us adhere to. Marketing I accept can influence some but as posted by myself and others *and ignored ....its certainly not the overriding criteria that some would like to think it is....

I think you overestimate the ability of the human brain to react logically to information, and underestimate the ability of marketeers to get past the human brain's defences.

 

[doog]

Can you point out where I was angry? I'm not 'in a tiz' either, I am just disagreeing with you.

What by using the term bollocks in a direct reply to my post (thats quite aggressive isnt it) , asking what my 'point is ' and accusing me of being monumentally rude about people who don't choose to wear plastic hats

Its fair to say I might have a point..

 

[mjr]

Yeah like some of us don't pootle around at 11 mph on a commute or a leisure ride?
View attachment 129638

And yet, time trialling in this country doesn't require you to wear a helmet and I've heard of a couple of serious crashes from TT helmet wearers not looking ahead... almost like having extra weight on your head makes it inclined to tilt forwards...

I popped into halfords the other day to get a new helmet for my daughter. Our charity ride around Snetterton race track required us all to wear helmets.

Freedom-hating cycling harmers. I hope they got a good commission from the helmet sellers: thirty pieces of silver would seem appropriate.

 

[Justinslow]

And yet, time trialling in this country doesn't require you to wear a helmet and I've heard of a couple of serious crashes from TT helmet wearers not looking ahead... almost like having extra weight on your head makes it inclined to tilt forwards...

Nah, it's just the extreme position, head down Bum up, I borrowed a mates TT bike to practice a 10, couldn't adjust the bars up because the steerer tube had been cut down and it was agony for me trying to see where I was going - just the severe angle in my neck, nothing to do with the helmet.

 

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[Justinslow]

Several posts have been deleted for discussing personalities - and therefore off topic.

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