The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

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Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
For my own point of view I agree it has really opened my mind to the pros and cons of wearing a helmet.
The thing is Justin you will probably find that the majority, if not all of the posters here that are non-wearers (occasional or regular, whatever) want nothing more than what you have posted, to move past the "wear a helmet because it's obvious innit" mantra and give it some thought. It's quite liberating isn't it? So why not consider dropping the snippy remarks, it's an odd trait considering you are criticising others don't you think?
 

Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Anyway @Justinslow with regards to this;
But like I said before, the world is not black or white so why do so many on here try to make it that way?
I'm not sure that people are trying to make things black and white or at least not the ones you think are, they're challenging the standard pattern of thinking or maybe more correctly attempting to get others to challenge that pattern of thinking in themselves.
There's a thread raging at the moment where the black and white thinking is coming squarely from the side of the argument which is accusing the other side of the black and white thinking, cyclist right motorist wrong ( I expect you know the one). However what people are accusing others of posting is actually not whats being posted at all.
Your accusation of black and white thinking is aimed at the people that are suggesting that the evidence is looked at, the ones that are generally pro-choice, the ones who are trying to actively stimulate the debate. The black and white thinking comes from people like yourself, you even say as much in the same post.
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
Do they? No one wears helmets to play football, association or Rugby. Scrum caps maybe but that is to reduce abbraision not protect from impacts.
Also, scrum caps can only be 1cm thick and must not be black so that damage to helmet or wearer can be seen easily - rules on maximum size and damage-evident colours seem like they would be good additions to cycle helmet standards, reducing the risk of helmets increasing impact probability through unnecessary extra size and of subtly-damaged helmets being used.

Professional cyclists and motorcyclists generally don't have free choice: they are compelled to wear them on pain of disqualification and the pro's are often co-sponsored by helmet manufacturers, so it's pretty unlikely that they'll speak out against them while a current pro. As such, it's hard to say what their real views are, but a lot of cyclists have been spotted riding without helmets (there was a controversy at last year's Giro when Contador rode without his for a bit, yet escaped punishment I think because only fans saw it, no referees) and many more wear them in a token manner, with loose dangly chinstraps or wild angles.

If you want to look at sports, then an interesting one is boxing, where head impacts are very common but use of headgear has become less popular recently.

But all this is mostly irrelevant. Cycling is an activity and not a sport for most people.

(edited to add link to a Contador incident)
 

benb

Evidence based cyclist
Location
Epsom
Your link goes to a search page, not actual evidence, like a paper. I don't discount your graph - please see my point about seat belts: do you wear one, if so why? I have given you a graph on seat belt use that shows the same (non) effect as cycle helmet use, so why is that one is not valid and your cycle helmet one is?

For the record, I have been enlightened by this debate and I don't think I am going to bother wearing a helmet any more as the evidence is so thin (and it get's on my nerves in the hot weather tbh). But I cannot abide people with their pseudo-evidence and poor-quality debating skills (i.e. get angry because they can't find the killer info that will prove their theory that absolute anti-helmet data is obvious). The fact is both sides have very limited evidence and so personal choice should prevail.

I agree with you that the evidence is weak for seatbelts and I made no comment either way about the graph you posted. The page I linked to had quite a few papers referenced though. And yes I do wear a seatbelt. It's a legal requirement apart from anything else.

Yes, personal choice should prevail. But only the non-wearers are at any risk of having that choice eroded. And it does need to be an informed choice. There is way too much unjustified faith placed in the protective effect of helmets which, as we have seen, is simply not supported by the evidence.
 

Scoosh

Velocouchiste
Moderator
Location
Edinburgh
MOD NOTE:
A number of posts have had to be Deleted yet again.

Stop the name-calling; stop the casual/flippant off-topic posts and keep to the subject.

Thank you.
 
Good post and very accurate regarding some posters on this thread.
Thanks.

For my own point of view I agree it has really opened my mind to the pros and cons of wearing a helmet.
I don't wear one all the time any more, I don't make my kids wear one all the time.
I spotted two of my local cycling club members out yesterday riding solo, both without helmets, it seems people do very different things to suit a given situation. Both these riders wear them when on group rides, maybe they feel the need to confirm or peer pressure? But like I said before, the world is not black or white so why do so many on here try to make it that way?


It is all to do with a personal assessment of risk

If someone feels they have sufficient control when riding solo, that a helmet is unnecessary then fine

If that same person feels that riding in a group exposes them to the actions of others and that increased risk requires a helmet then again, that is fine


The point is that it s an informed decision
 
Paul Newton shared Mark Walker's photo.
14 hrs ·

Mark Walker
27 April 2015 ·
iOS
·
If you ride a bike wear a bloody helmet. This was a local chaps helmet after he collided with a van. He lived. Please share this and make sure anyone you know who rides a bike sees this. Thank you.

Nuff said!!

In the lack of real evidence, resort to emotive bullying

Is this linked image an argument for pedestrian helmets?

Simulated severe head injury

Note: this is a simulated head injury
 
Anyone know the source of this image........ I sincerely hope that none of the information on those documents show details of staff or patients
 

glasgowcyclist

Charming but somewhat feckless
Location
Scotland
Paul Newton shared Mark Walker's photo.
14 hrs ·

Mark Walker
27 April 2015 ·
iOS
·
If you ride a bike wear a bloody helmet. This was a local chaps helmet after he collided with a van. He lived. Please share this and make sure anyone you know who rides a bike sees this. Thank you.

Nuff said!!

Well, that's me convinced. I also never ride without a Jamaica ginger cake in my back pocket.
http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news...ash_says_Jamaican_ginger_cake_saved_his_life/

image.jpeg

This was a guy's ginger cake after he crashed with a car. He lived.

Please share and make sure anyone you know who rides a bike carries some cake, even Kendal mint will afford some protection.


GC
 
I bought a new light and opening the packaging........

blog-bloody-finger.jpg



If you open packaging, wear bloody gloves. This was my finger after I opened a package. I lived. Please share this and make sure anyone you know who opens packages sees this. Thank you
 
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Mugshot

Cracking a solo.
Below is a reply which appears to be from the helmet owner;

Hey Mark, without your post it would have just been a few people that would have seen helmet tech at work.
It is a long road to recovery and I am venturing back onto the road this year(I hope). My rehab has mainly involved bike paths & turbo trainer. I had the pleasure of passing on my personal thanks to Specialized at the London Bike Show and encouraged them to keep investing in the high level of SNELL testing they do which greatly exceeds most helmets available in the UK/world. Specialized exceed required EU tests which costs them and I for one am specifically grateful. In the world of marginal gains I 'may' have survived with a lesser helmet but likely with permanent damage to my brain. I still have a year or so before a final prognosis on what final recovery will look like but I am walking & talking and it could have been so different.
I would have to give a mention to keeping your bike maintained as I had just put new brake cables + pads on a few days before. The old ones were 8/10, but that isn't a high number when your life is depending on them.
 

steve50

Disenchanted Member
Location
West Yorkshire
Paul Newton shared Mark Walker's photo.
14 hrs ·

Mark Walker
27 April 2015 ·
iOS
·
If you ride a bike wear a bloody helmet. This was a local chaps helmet after he collided with a van. He lived. Please share this and make sure anyone you know who rides a bike sees this. Thank you.

Nuff said!!
#
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153499521074505&set=p.10153499521074505&type=3&theater

I reckon given the number of anti helmet posts on this forum even if some of you were presented with concrete proof that helmets can save lives you would probably still argue against them. Helmet wearing is personal choice, I personally believe a helmet could save my life in the event of a crash where my head is likely to impact with a car windscreen or similar so therefore I will continue to wear my helmet. That is my personal choice.
 
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