The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

[gds58]

This really has to be the most pointless and ridiculous 'debate' I have ever witnessed anywhere!! I cannot believe it's still tirelessly going round and round and round!! surely there cannot possibly be anybody on here who previously WAS a helmet wearer who has read all the 'anti' comments and has thought to himself 'do you know what, I don't think I'll wear one any more. There are those who feel better by wearing one and there are those who don't. You've all had your say, me included, it's going absolutely nowhere so leave it at that and close the most pointless thread in existence and then carry on doing whichever you prefer.
Thanks for your input, it's been emotional.

 

[martint235]

This really has to be the most pointless and ridiculous 'debate' I have ever witnessed anywhere!! I cannot believe it's still tirelessly going round and round and round!! surely there cannot possibly be anybody on here who previously WAS a helmet wearer who has read all the 'anti' comments and has thought to himself 'do you know what, I don't think I'll wear one any more. There are those who feel better by wearing one and there are those who don't. You've all had your say, me included, it's going absolutely nowhere so leave it at that and close the most pointless thread in existence and then carry on doing whichever you prefer.
Thanks for your input, it's been emotional.

Thanks for your input.

And you never know. I was wearing a helmet until I started riding with other cyclists who didn't wear them. The discussions that followed prompted me to consign mine to the cupboard (in case I need them for track cycling). So you never know....

 

[Fab Foodie]

This really has to be the most pointless and ridiculous 'debate' I have ever witnessed anywhere!! I cannot believe it's still tirelessly going round and round and round!!


surely there cannot possibly be anybody on here who previously WAS a helmet wearer who has read all the 'anti' comments and has thought to himself 'do you know what, I don't think I'll wear one any more.


Thanks for your input, it's been emotional.

Ok, I'm calling you on the 3 points above.


Firstly if you think this is a pointless thread you were never around during the days of Campagnolo vs Shimano.

Secondly, I was an early helmet adopter, around 1982 commuting in London and wore one religiously up until about 5 years ago as a result of debates here and elsewhere and reviewing the evidence available and my own experiences. So now I am helmet free, anti compulsion and pro choice. Where I do get pi553d off is when people, media and industry try to impose helmet wearing as 'the sensible thing to do' and using scare techniques to impose something that is entirely unproven and may even be counterproductive to road safety. If you want to be keep safer, wear a helmet when walking and driving because that's what the evidence shows it will be of equal or greater value.
Interestingly, no helmets are sold on the basis of their protective effect ....
Cycling us not dangerous, that's a good place to start.
There is no anti-helmet group, rather there are those that wish to counter the compulsion lobby with facts so that informed choices can be made.


Finally, it IS emotional and that's the prime issue, too much emotion, anecdata rather than evidence.

 

[Shut Up Legs]

Interestingly, no helmets are sold on the basis of their protective effect

No vendor would dare make that claim about their helmets, because they know well enough that they'd be lying, and whatever consumer rights organisations you have in the UK would be free to censure them.
I'm pretty sure the same would occur in Australia: here, all they can claim is that a helmet conforms to the (pretty pathetic) safety standard "Trade Practices (Consumer Product Safety Standards) Regulations 2001—Bicycle Helmets", which is based on AS/NZS 2063:2008.

 

[Justinslow]

Ok, I'm calling you on the 3 points above.


Firstly if you think this is a pointless thread you were never around during the days of Campagnolo vs Shimano.

Secondly, I was an early helmet adopter, around 1982 commuting in London and wore one religiously up until about 5 years ago as a result of debates here and elsewhere and reviewing the evidence available and my own experiences. So now I am helmet free, anti compulsion and pro choice. Where I do get pi553d off is when people, media and industry try to impose helmet wearing as 'the sensible thing to do' and using scare techniques to impose something that is entirely unproven and may even be counterproductive to road safety. If you want to be keep safer, wear a helmet when walking and driving because that's what the evidence shows it will be of equal or greater value.
Interestingly, no helmets are sold on the basis of their protective effect ....
Cycling us not dangerous, that's a good place to start.
There is no anti-helmet group, rather there are those that wish to counter the compulsion lobby with facts so that informed choices can be made.


Finally, it IS emotional and that's the prime issue, too much emotion, anecdata rather than evidence.

tingly, no helmets are sold on the basis of their protective effect ....

Taken from the "kask mojito" description.
"At 220g, the Mojito is no heavy hitter. Thank's to it's light In-moulding construction combined with an expanded polystyrene shell, the Mojito performs excellently in crash situations, helping to prevent injuries".

Cycling us not dangerous, that's a good place to start.

That's a matter of opinion as discussed already, many believe it is.

 

[benb]

Taken from the "kask mojito" description.
"At 220g, the Mojito is no heavy hitter. Thank's to it's light In-moulding construction combined with an expanded polystyrene shell, the Mojito performs excellently in crash situations, helping to prevent injuries".

Is that from the manufacturer or the shop?

 

[Fab Foodie]

Taken from the "kask mojito" description.
"At 220g, the Mojito is no heavy hitter. Thank's to it's light In-moulding construction combined with an expanded polystyrene shell, the Mojito performs excellently in crash situations, helping to prevent injuries".



That's a matter of opinion as discussed already, many believe it is.

Ok, manufacturer or sales?
What does performs excellently in crash situation mean? That's meaningless market speak. In what way does it perform excellently and compared to what?

Belief is the issue, like ghosts or gods. The evidence simply doesn't support the belief. I'm certain @srw will oblige with the relevant article (I'm about to fly) on denominator neglect that neatly demonstrates that cycling on roads is a very low risk activity.

 

[mjr]

Taken from the "kask mojito" description.
"At 220g, the Mojito is no heavy hitter. Thank's to it's light In-moulding construction combined with an expanded polystyrene shell, the Mojito performs excellently in crash situations, helping to prevent injuries".

The mojito performs excellently thanks to being constructed exactly like almost all helmets??? Could you give the source of that, please? I'd love to test whether it stands up to a challenge with the advertiser or ASA, or whether it'll get withdrawn like a half odds claim did.

I think POC market their helmets on safety, as I think I've linked before.

 

[ianrauk]

close the most pointless thread in existence

Close the thread then another post will appear with the opening gambit. 'I had an off/crash/collision and the helmet saved my life' and the whole thing will start again. That's how forums work. Hence the one thread to cover it.

 

[martint235]

Taken from the "kask mojito" description.
"At 220g, the Mojito is no heavy hitter. Thank's to it's light In-moulding construction combined with an expanded polystyrene shell, the Mojito performs excellently in crash situations, helping to prevent injuries".

I've sent an email to Kask.

EDIT: While I await a response, here's the warnings that come with the Mojito Helmet:

WARNING:This helmet is intended for use in athletic activities that are extremely dangerous. FAILURE TO HEED THESE WARNINGS OR FOLLOW THESE INSTRUCTIONS MAY RESULT IN SERIOUS INJURY OR DEATH.

WARNING: Please carefully read and understand the following Instructions. Use this helmet for the activities for which it is certified (see Labeling), and those activities only.

WARNING: Improper use of this helmet may cause serious or fatal injury. If the instructions are not followed correctly, the level of protection offered by the helmet can be significantly reduced. Before each use, please carefully inspect the helmet for any signs of visible damage. DO NOT USE THE HELMET IF THERE IS ANY SUSPICION OF ITS CONDITION, ESPECIALLY AFTER A MAJOR IMPACT.

WARNING: It is mandatory that the user is fully aware of all the features of the helmet, its capabilities and limitations, and receives specific instructions and/or training in the proper use of the helmet from a competent and responsible professional.

WARNING: USERS OF THE HELMET ARE FULLY RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR ACTIONS AND ASSUME ALL RISKS FOR THEIR DECISIONS. KASK, its affiliates, subsidiaries, importers, distributors and dealers will accept no responsibility in the event of any accident leading to injury or even death and will not be liable for any injury, death, loss, or damage resulting from improper use of this helmet.

 

[mjr]

I've sent an email to Kask.

Why? It doesn't appear on Kask's description of the Mojito. I suspect @Justinslow is quoting Rutland Cycling's marketing but I'd like confirmation.

 

[martint235]

Why? It doesn't appear on Kask's description of the Mojito. I suspect @Justinslow is quoting Rutland Cycling's marketing but I'd like confirmation.

As I was reading the Kask website I came across the warnings and have asked them to tell me the capabilities and limitations of the helmet with supporting data where required.

 

[Justinslow]

Is that from the manufacturer or the shop?

From the "Rutland cycling" description, don't know if it's from kask or the seller?

 

[martint235]

From the "Rutland cycling" description, don't know if it's from kask or the seller?
View attachment 119191

Everything from "Eco Chinstrap" onwards is lifted from the Kask site. If everyone paid attention to every warning on their website, no one would wear a Kask helmet. You need specific instructions from a competent and responsible professional for example. To be fair it doesn't say the profession has to relate to cycling but one imagines that it does in this context.

 

[SavageHoutkop]

I reckon that, if you had bothered to read it before pitching in, you could find instances of people saying exactly that.

Me, Me. Over here.