The CycleChat Helmet Debate Thread

Page may contain affiliate links. Please see terms for details.

Justinslow

Lovely jubbly
Location
Suffolk
Don't understand. You appear to have won it by only racing two races. And your first TT resulted in a PB. :wacko:

Well done though. A trophy is a trophy and a medal a medal. (I chase shiny medals too, only 2 so far though)
Cheers, evening TT series points champion - to give it its proper name, rookie year - most improved based on times therefore lots of points, not out and out fastest (yet).
Yes it is nice to get a reward for trying hard.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Cheers, evening TT series points champion - to give it its proper name, rookie year - most improved based on times therefore lots of points, not out and out fastest (yet).
Yes it is nice to get a reward for trying hard.
Still confused by the "and a set a PB at his first open 10 mile TT" though, how could it not be a PB?
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
But if you'd tested your helmet thoroughly against real world situations and provided peer reviewed evidence afterwards, you'd be confident enough in the performance of the helmet that the threat of being sued would be mitigated by the number of extra helmets you'd sold.
You would have to be pretty damned confident, as the courts are not famous for being predictable/reliable when the evidence is anything less than obviously solid.

As far as I'm aware the lawsuits against MMR manufacturers from parents whose children have gone on to contract one of those diseases are minimal.
Well, medical testing is usually far stronger and contains more real-world testing than the sort of testing that has gone around cycle helmets. I think my statistics lessons said that traditional analysis of medical trials often required 99% confidence levels (basically less than 1 in 100 chance of a false success) and sometimes higher, whereas I think I read some helmet trials failed to find significant benefit at 95%.

My assertion that absence from advertising means that at best even the manufacturers haven't got a scoobies or that they know the helmets aren't very good at what people "think" they are for.
I suspect it's the latter: Chris Boardman said "I manufacture the things. In an incident with a car they will have almost no effect."
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
So a "loved one" whose wishes are for you to give up cycling because it is dangerous and a "loved one" who wishes you to wear a helmet because it is dangerous should both be given consideration

.... and in either case a "Spock like" application of common sense should be the over-riding factor

Deciding to continue cycling or not to wear a helmet against their wishes being equally valid,and equally an arse for not complying ?
No. You're an arse if you ignore those you love. Love is all about compromise and negotiation.
 

srw

It's a bit more complicated than that...
[QUOTE 4156493, member: 45"]Would that be compromise and negotiation?[/QUOTE]
I think it would be in Cunobellinania.
 
[QUOTE 4156493, member: 45"]Would that be compromise and negotiation?[/QUOTE]

Which is the point

The discouraged "Spock like" process would be to sum up the facts,compromise and negotiate and then continue not to wear a helmet if that is your informed decision
 

Justinslow

Lovely jubbly
Location
Suffolk
Still confused by the "and a set a PB at his first open 10 mile TT" though, how could it not be a PB?
I think it means all my TT's up to that point were "club" TT's, where by I got down to 24.29 on the 10, then in my first ever "open" TT (which was after the club TT' season had finished) I bettered it to get a 24.19 albeit on a different course. Some of our club riders have been up to Hull for a 10 just to get a PB for a 10 as its a really fast course apparently. Sorry to go off topic a bit.
 

martint235

Dog on a bike
Location
Welling
Well, medical testing is usually far stronger and contains more real-world testing than the sort of testing that has gone around cycle helmets. I think my statistics lessons said that traditional analysis of medical trials often required 99% confidence levels (basically less than 1 in 100 chance of a false success) and sometimes higher, whereas I think I read some helmet trials failed to find significant benefit at 95%.
"

But this is my point. If people want me to wear a helmet, tell me what it is going to offer me and be pretty damn sure it will offer me that. Otherwise I'm sorry but it's just a plastic hat
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjr
[QUOTE 4156517, member: 45"]No it's not.

You don't seem able to respect that someone else might have a view different to yours.[/QUOTE]
What I don't respect is suggesting that emotional blackmail is a reason for a decision making process


What has been achieved is a change from wearing one regardless to it now being open to negotiation, and compromise. At the end coming to a reasoned, informed decision

I have no issue with that
 

mjr

Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
No. You're an arse if you ignore those you love. Love is all about compromise and negotiation.
The bit in bold seems to be being ignored by some participants in the discussion. I don't see anyone saying to ignore it - negotiate and given that helmets don't really stack up, it'll probably be a big reduction in helmet use from 100%.

Also, love isn't a one-way street, so the other party should also be willing to compromise and negotiate. Meekly accepting irrational demands that maybe increase your injury isn't love... and this is all general and not about the poster who started this.
 

Shut Up Legs

Down Under Member
It surprises me too.

"An expert would be engaged to assess the situational risk of helmet-free riding in "parks, town centres and other low-speed environments such as shared zones and university precincts".

So they're considering allowing helmet-free riding at speeds where a helmet is designed and tested to work, but keeping mandatory helmet use on roads where most collisions will be outside a helmet's protection parameters. Sheer genius! Has nothing been learned in the years since the ill-advised legislation was passed?
I agree, it's poorly considered, but the very fact that they're considering any kind of move towards optional helmet use is what surprised me. Australia in recent decades seems to set the international standard for nanny states.
 

Poacher

Gravitationally challenged member
Location
Nottingham
I agree, it's poorly considered, but the very fact that they're considering any kind of move towards optional helmet use is what surprised me. Australia in recent decades seems to set the international standard for nanny states.
Quite right; I knew that was really what you meant. :smile: Just a sly dig on my part at the idiocy of the original passing of the mandatory helmet legislation, the only(?) beneficial aspect of which is that we now have pretty much irrefutable evidence of helmets not reducing injury rates in a whole population study.
One more thought in passing: a thoughtful nanny really ought to be more concerned about the increasing obesity problem, partly brought about by the MHL.
 
I agree, it's poorly considered, but the very fact that they're considering any kind of move towards optional helmet use is what surprised me. Australia in recent decades seems to set the international standard for nanny states.

There have been cases that have weakened the argument though

One woman successfully appealed a fine for not wearing a helmet and the Judge ruled that there was insufficient evidence for helmets and in her case sufficient evidence that a helmet could cause her harm that he stated her decision not to wear a helmet was valid
 
[QUOTE 4156613, member: 45"]I didn't see any emotional blackmail there. You're creating an argument to win on your terms.[/QUOTE]

You really see "wear a helmet for your loved ones" as reasoned and evidence based ?
 
Top Bottom