Team BKool CycleChat

[Whorty]

If help is required I'll chip in with some cash

Yep, me too I need the company on the DD so happy to lend a hand so you can still ride with us.

 

[Whorty]

Thanks Bill. I think I AM going to cut my losses and head home early. The last time I bought a bike mid tour after breaking a chain stay, it changed the whole feel. My wife is insisting I regroup and start in Edinburgh then ride the double devil next year. The last 12 days have been the best and although it may have been a hasty decision it feels right. Like Arnold says”I’ll be back”

Really sorry to hear that Randy - why not stay in a hotel for a night and think it over. I appreciate this is a real sh1t but you might feel a bit different after a nights sleep. HID is gutted for you too. We can only apologise for the thieving scum we have in this country!

 

[CXRAndy]

Well this is weird.

As suggested, challenged myself on a short course we did back in an old CG league. Rode the Tacx Neo.

Rode with 45W more average power and averaged 3W/k versus 2.5W/k.

Got left on the line at the start and came in last 30 seconds behind my own Bkool ghost, yet the ride felt far more realistic.

How does that work? And is this similar to others experiences.

Ride data is here:

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/7368938

The actual ride is fine with an non Bkool trainer, the gradients are realistic and from what I remember you don't tend to suffer the dead stop with Kickrs Neo etc. The main problem is being completely non competitive against less strong riders, the other problem is over reading of power and speed compared to non Bkool or outdoor numbers

You will notice that the Bkool power and speed line graphs are much smoother compared to the Neo graphs, more sawtooth. When you ease off power with Neo power instantly drops, this doesn't happen with a Bkool. When you stops pedaling power is still recorded for quite a while. This has been done to death over and over. You have now experience directly. The decision is yours now Bkool or something else

Try Zwift on a free trial, you will like the smoothness, realistic speed. The rolling hills are a dream to ride through.

 

[Randyberlin]

Really sorry to hear that Randy - why not stay in a hotel for a night and think it over. I appreciate this is a real sh1t but you might feel a bit different after a nights sleep. HID is gutted for you too. We can only apologise for the thieving scum we have in this country!

Thanks Whorty. I already bought the ticket. It was hasty but it feels right. In the big picture getting a bicycle stolen isn’t that important. And everyone I’ve met in the last 2 weeks have been exceptionally nice. It would take a lot more than a stupid bike thief to change that impression. Plus how do we know it isn’t some dude who emigrated from the USA.
You’ll just have to commit to the double devil next year.

 

[theboxers]

Well this is weird.

As suggested, challenged myself on a short course we did back in an old CG league. Rode the Tacx Neo.

Rode with 45W more average power and averaged 3W/k versus 2.5W/k.

Got left on the line at the start and came in last 30 seconds behind my own Bkool ghost, yet the ride felt far more realistic.

How does that work? And is this similar to others experiences.

Ride data is here:

http://www.bkool.com/bkoolSessionHistory/showSessionSummary/7368938

Similar to my experience. My ghosts farg orf up the road never to be seen again by me.

My velo test the other day was a shocker. Trying to hold a set power range 160-180w was painful. The speed was all over the place from 25-35kmh when I felt like I was putting out a fairly consistant power, but was registering 150-200w. I know a fair amount of variance is down how well you pedal but damn that was tough.

 

[Whorty]

Thanks Whorty. I already bought the ticket. It was hasty but it feels right. In the big picture getting a bicycle stolen isn’t that important. And everyone I’ve met in the last 2 weeks have been exceptionally nice. It would take a lot more than a stupid bike thief to change that impression. Plus how do we know it isn’t some dude who emigrated from the USA.
You’ll just have to commit to the double devil next year.

Can't say I blame you Randy but I'm really sad not to get to meet you this year. I also feel embarrassed that this has happened to you, but there are scum everywhere these days. If you're over next year for the DD, I'll definitely be meeting you somewhere for a ride Have a safe journey home and know you have lots of friends this side of the pond

 

[Del C]

The actual ride is fine with an non Bkool trainer, the gradients are realistic and from what I remember you don't tend to suffer the dead stop with Kickrs Neo etc. The main problem is being completely non competitive against less strong riders, the other problem is over reading of power and speed compared to non Bkool or outdoor numbers

You will notice that the Bkool power and speed line graphs are much smoother compared to the Neo graphs, more sawtooth. When you ease off power with Neo power instantly drops, this doesn't happen with a Bkool. When you stops pedaling power is still recorded for quite a while. This has been done to death over and over. You have now experience directly. The decision is yours now Bkool or something else

Try Zwift on a free trial, you will like the smoothness, realistic speed. The rolling hills are a dream to ride through.

Definitely going to do the free trial on Zwift.

There was nothing wrong with the ride on Bkool. It felt very smooth. The odd thing for me was that my Neo power was higher and yet I came in 30 seconds slower.

I think I understand more now that it’s the lack of level playing field that is the issue with Bsim rather than the ride experience itself

 

[Brusgaard]

Definitely going to do the free trial on Zwift.
I think I understand more now that it’s the lack of level playing field that is the issue with Bsim rather than the ride experience itself

I'm afraid you'll notice the same among Bkool trainers. There are numerous bogus results, when you go through the rankings of various races. "Fairy dust", cheats and other strange things comes to mind, but sometimes it is just inexplicable. The same goes for Zwift.

 

[Whorty]

Similar to my experience. My ghosts farg orf up the road never to be seen again by me.

My velo test the other day was a shocker. Trying to hold a set power range 160-180w was painful. The speed was all over the place from 25-35kmh when I felt like I was putting out a fairly consistant power, but was registering 150-200w. I know a fair amount of variance is down how well you pedal but damn that was tough.

Yes, I have seen similar. Seems BSIM looks at power and matches speed directly to this power. So, if you're hitting 180 it gives you 30kph, 160 25kph, 200 gives 35 kph. Problem is, it changes these speeds instantly on the velodrome and seems to ignore the velocity that you're travelling at. Hence, if you're pushing 200 watts at 35 kph, then let off slightly to 160 watts the speed drops instantly. On the Pro you keep the momentum.

I can't get anywhere near my Pro ghosts when I'm on the Kickr in BSIM (yet in Zwift, I'm beating my Pro times when on the Kickr - go figure!)

 

[bridgy]

I'm afraid you'll notice the same among Bkool trainers. There are numerous bogus results, when you go through the rankings of various races. "Fairy dust", cheats and other strange things comes to mind, but sometimes it is just inexplicable. The same goes for Zwift.

This is of course true but there are two key differences I have noticed with zwift - firstly they've done a far better job of attempting to level the playing field between different trainers - it's not perfect but it's much better in this respect to bkool. Secondly the Zwift power results do a good job of filtering out or highlighting unusual or unrealistic results, while on bkool they generally are just left to stand

 

[Brusgaard]

This is of course true but there are two key differences I have noticed with zwift - firstly they've done a far better job of attempting to level the playing field between different trainers - it's not perfect but it's much better in this respect to bkool. Secondly the Zwift power results do a good job of filtering out or highlighting unusual or unrealistic results, while on bkool they generally are just left to stand

That is actually my point. You won't find a "flawless" system with all the variables related to indoor cycling. Yes, the Zwift algorithm is probably better, or at least different, but you still see them funny results. ZP filters them out, or should we say "disappear", but they are still there.

As I've written earlier, I think some of these discrepancies, could be related to the fact that Bkool is doing both the hardware (trainers) and software ("racing simulator") making them a competitor to both Zwift and the other trainer-manufacturers, and them therefore reluctant to exchange too much information. That goes both ways, I guess.

To make sure older Bkools (non ANT+ FE-C ones) still work on their platform, they have probably stuck to the old algorithms, where as Zwift has been free to implement whatever algorithm / requirements they wanted to from day one.

 

[bobinski]

This is of course true but there are two key differences I have noticed with zwift - firstly they've done a far better job of attempting to level the playing field between different trainers - it's not perfect but it's much better in this respect to bkool. Secondly the Zwift power results do a good job of filtering out or highlighting unusual or unrealistic results, while on bkool they generally are just left to stand

This.
One platform sees the sense in a relatively level playing field . The other doesn’t care. You don’t have to be an evangelist or apologist for either when recognising this.
Zwift has been criticised for not being more proactive in levelling the playing field but as business their model is balancing that level playing field with a spirit of inclusion- arguable a sensible business model.
Enter zwiftpower for racing.
Anyway, it’s good to have choice

 

[bridgy]

@Randyberlin just occurred to me that it might be worth you posting a couple of good pics of your bike here, and confirm the size and any distinguishing features and we can keep an eye out on ebay and other places where used bikes are sold. I have heard of other people who have found their stolen bikes for sale this way. I know its too late for you now but there's probably some sentimental attachment and it would be amazing if we could find it and reunite you with it some time It's a long shot I know but worth a try .....?

 

[Brendan Parker]

@BILL S can I just say stage 2 was awful

 

[BILL S]

@BILL S can I just say stage 2 was awful

I agree Bert. I was hating myself for picking it the whole time, especially as Adam was taking a second out of me for every 10