Stand lights at railway stations (Dynamo and eBikes)

[Dogtrousers]

Does it matter whether or not there is a specific bylaw? The Train Operators request that you switch off lights. At least a couple mention it on their websites. I stopped checking after I found two.

Now, if they were requiring something unreasonable - bikes must be carried, blue bikes must be draped in purple, or something - then it might be worth questioning. But this is trivial: switch your lights off. If they won't switch off, cover them.

Complaining that it's an unfair imposition does come across as just a teeny tiny bit entitled.

 

[Time Waster]

Bear in mind railway stations are private property. As such what you do on there is at the discretion of the owners or in this case the operating company. They can eject you from the property and if you do not comply the police can get involved. Any reasonable instruction that is repeatedly not complied with can result with ejection. For example I doubt you would find byelaws about standing behind the yellow safety lines but I have seen the BTP brought in to enforce that when some idiot was testing the rail worker.

 

[Ajax Bay]

As I reiterated: I am "quite clear that random red lights with clear potential to confuse and create an unsafe situation is a hazard to be eliminated."
I am merely observing that this is a hazard that should be simply communicated.

It's not the penalties it's the consequences.
There's a regulation, seems quite a good m, sensible one.

Is there a regulation? Can't find it. @Time Waster you are all over this. Help us here.
Put yourself in the shoes of a cyclist who has recently acquired a dynamo powered light* which by design stays on for the time one might have to wait at traffic lights. They decide to take a train.
As you say: "you just have to know that it is an issue". How are they to know this safety prohibition? Much better that it's 'common knowledge with an obvious reason' than needing the station staff to keep an eye out for it all the time.
One could not derive this from the byelaws.
@Dogtrousers has found it mentioned several times (but no links).

Depending on a member of staff catching it and informing the cyclist seems to me a weak/unreliable mitigation of the risk.
"if you are a train driver trained to understand the red light secondary system" - should we infer that some are and some aren't?
I don't think anyone (except you as a strawman) is suggesting cyclists should argue the toss or be other than compliant.
The OP ( this thread) just asked for info/advice (which is: if you have a light that stays on, cover it). He has been rebriefed.


*(I am not one such and would obviously get off at the station entrance and switch off (to save power).)

 

[Dogtrousers]

@Dogtrousers has found it mentioned several times (but no links).

For the hard of searching ...

The following TOCs include on their websites a request that lights be turned off in stations/on platforms. There may be more.

https://www.southernrailway.com/travel-information/onboard-travel/bringing-a-bike
https://www.merseyrail.org/journey-planning/getting-to-our-stations/cycle/
https://www.londonnorthwesternrailway.co.uk/travel-information/onboard-facilities/cycle-spaces
https://www.westmidlandsrailway.co.uk/travel-information/onboard-facilities/cycle-spaces

That is sufficient to confirm to me that it is a real thing, and that there is nothing to be gained from digging through bylaws other than earning a few "well actually" points on Cyclechat.

 

[Andy in Germany]

So - no off switch then? That's bad design IMHO.. If I was a regular visitor to railway premises with my bike, during darkness, then I think it would be in my best interest (and the best interest of rail staff and customers) to choose an alternative type of rear light. For example, one that can be switched off!

They are a legal requirement on new bikes with a dynamo in Germany, all my bikes have had one for years. Modern headlights have a stand light too and while you can switch them off, once charged they'll stay lit until the capacitor is discharged.

I've never heard about them being an issue on stations here; possibly because this legal requirement means they're more common, so train drivers are used to them.

 

[Ajax Bay]

Are there any reports in the wild of train drivers taking emergency action (eg braking) or pulling away unsafely?
In the last 30 years?
If there aren't perhaps their absence means that this prohibition has worked. Or that this issue is over estimated.
Caveat: It's clear that random red lights with clear potential to confuse and create an unsafe situation is a hazard to be eliminated.

 

[Time Waster]

Where do they say that you can take a bike on the train? Assuming you do that then you must have just known? Or did you search for a byelaw first to find out? There are simply things that people know like red cycle light at the rear and white at the front. It is something I think that most people using bikes and trains simply have a good instinct for or see others doing it so when they started to use the bike and train also copied existing practise.

It is there in the TOCs of train operators just as is the carriage of cycles on trains. You are in a contract with the train operators so look no further than their TOCs. There may well be laws relating to it but those contractual details with the train operators are all you need. That applies to stations as there will be TOC for their use in among it all as mostly the main train operator runs each line's stations too.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

For people who have no time for arguing, there’s a lot of arguing going on…

I haven’t got my dynamo on the bike at the moment as I need to rebuild a front wheel with warranty claim dynamo. But I’ve found switching the front light off, as I approach the station, means front and rear are discharged by time I get to a platform.

 

[Dogtrousers]

For people who have no time for arguing, there’s a lot of arguing going on…

If we run short of disagreements: is it by law or bye law, and should it be two words, one word, or hyphenated?

I think all are acceptable, but the British standard seems to be byelaw with an e, all one word. I think that looks ugly, and bylaw looks much nicer.

 

[mjr]

But I’ve found switching the front light off, as I approach the station, means front and rear are discharged by time I get to a platform.

This doesn't happen with all lights. Like the effects of switches and discharge buttons, it depends how the lights are wired in, their internal electronics and probably the phase of the moon.

Even so, a light that is difficult to extinguish seems less of a design flaw than a light that can go out before your journey is over like most battery lights do.

And TOC is short for train operating company. I think the earlier poster may have meant T&Cs, but for our railways, it's actually currently CoT: conditions of travel. Available on NationalRail.co.uk

 

[Ajax Bay]

Assuming . . . . you must have just known? . . . simply things that people know . . . . simply have a good instinct for

So it's all assumptions then, or common knowledge, or instinct?
[The helmet thread is >>>> that way.]
Any reports of this hazard having ever been realised? (Which is the question I asked.)
@Drago said with the authority which he's deservedly earned over many years:

A train driver wont foxtrot about. They wont stare at a light and waste time trying to see what it is. No, they'll ram on the brakes (which can cause inconvenience, expense, and danger all of its own) and ask questions after the event.

Caveat: It's clear that random red lights with clear potential to confuse and create an unsafe situation is a hazard to be eliminated.
If it was warmer, I'd be riding.

 

[Gwylan]

You could cross the room walking on the beige anoraks.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

This doesn't happen with all lights. Like the effects of switches and discharge buttons, it depends how the lights are wired in, their internal electronics and probably the phase of the moon.

It happens for all dynamo lights with an off switch. As soon as you switch it off, both run and rear will be running off their super capacitors and the discharge countdown begins.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

If we run short of disagreements: is it by law or bye law, and should it be two words, one word, or hyphenated?

I think all are acceptable, but the British standard seems to be byelaw with an e, all one word. I think that looks ugly, and bylaw looks much nicer.

bylaw (n.) also by-law, late 13c., bilage "local ordinance," from Old Norse or Old Danish bi-lagu "town law," from byr "place where people dwell, town, village," from bua "to dwell" (from PIE root *bheue- "to be, exist, grow") + lagu "law" (see law). So, a local law pertaining to local residents, hence "a standing rule of a corporation or association for regulation of its organization and conduct."

 

[BrumJim]

I work in the industry. Given the choice of changing standards or changing the mind of a train driver, I'd be straight off to the Standards writers.

Just turn the light off or cover it up and stop arguing.