So, this might have happened... NBD - 2016 Fuji Touring workhorse
- Thread starter wafter
- Start date
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Thanks - however if you take a good look at the pics of my rack in my previous post I think you'll see why this is unlikely to work.
Having looked at images of a lot of other racks (including yours above), it seems that the tubing on the sides is mostly co-planar, with the centreline of the mount to the frame shared with that of the tubing above it supports.. so assuming you have 10mm OD tubing with a 5mm wide mounting flange at the bottom to bolt to the frame (and pretend that everything is square), the sides of the rack only project 2.5mm inboard of the mounting surface on the frame; giving plenty of space for mudguard stays inside.
Conversely the construction of mine is different - the rack's mount to the frame is a flat plate, to the inside of which is butt-welded one section of 10mm tubing, with another subsequent piece of 10mm tubing butt-welded inside that further up. Consequently the maximum projection of the inside of the tubes inboard of the frame's mounting surface is around 20mm.
Were I to take either of the routes you've suggested the mudguard stays are still going to foul one or more of these tubes as they did when I initially tried to fit the rack over the stays - it hanging up maybe 100mm above where it needed to be to be bolted to the frame.
As it stands the stays would need to move inboard by at least 20mm (two rack tube diameters) on each side to sit inside the rack (probably more like 25mm taking into account stay diameter and the angles involved). I could remove the 5mm spacer on the stays and bend / space the rack out by 20mm on each side, but I don't much like this idea for fear of damaging the rack or being unable to get it level...
I think realistically the only way I'm going to get around this is to replace the rack, which is only likely to happen if I score a decent used one as new ones doen't appear to be cheap!
It's certainly not ideal as it stands, however shouldn't present any problems in use and will only be an issue if the rack needs to be removed which I hope will be far from a regular requirement..
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Jameshow
Veteran
Rack should go up against the frame, otherwise the bolt is continually being fatigued.
Mudguard stay should really go in another threaded hole.
Good point about the bolt - tbh if it's tight and only spaced out a little way I doubt it'd be an issue; the 20mm I was mooting earlier might be a different matter though!
Vantage
Carbon fibre... LMAO!!!
- Location
- Behind everyone else, Bolton
You're not far wrong with me going into it as a labour of love. This thing was supposed to be my dream bike...you know, the one you lust after thinking you'll never get it. Asides from the issues I have with it, it is just that.Sorry to hear about all those problems - I've heard some good stuff about Spa in the past so I'm surprised by some of the seemingly unforgiveably basic issues you've had and bizarre design choices... That must be really disappointing, especially considering it sounds like you went into it as a labour of love
Have you had a word with them about it? What are you looking to replace it with?
The chap who designed Spa's frames is 531colin on the CUK forum and is aware of my grievances with it. Apparently the bottle cage mount issue is specific to my size frame which is stupid as with a small frame, you'd want a lower cage mount to get under the lower top tube.
I have to say, your tourer is looking very nice
In reality, unless you're carrying really heavy stuff, doesn’t matter.
You're not far wrong with me going into it as a labour of love. This thing was supposed to be my dream bike...you know, the one you lust after thinking you'll never get it. Asides from the issues I have with it, it is just that.
The chap who designed Spa's frames is 531colin on the CUK forum and is aware of my grievances with it. Apparently the bottle cage mount issue is specific to my size frame which is stupid as with a small frame, you'd want a lower cage mount to get under the lower top tube.
I have to say, your tourer is looking very nice
The problems sound especially disappointing given how invested you were in the idea - I felt / feel that way about my Genesis; although thankfully for me that turned out pretty well!
It must be somewhat awkward to actually know the guy who designed the bike, given its shortcomings.. although I guess it's still up to the supplier to actually sort these issues out rather than the designer. I assume any chance of anyone actually doing anything is now off the menu..? I'm glad to hear it's not a total disaster as you evidently still value it despite its problems
Thanks for the encouragement with the Fuji - it's been a bit frustrating and of course taken far longer than it should have, but it feels like it's getting somewhere close now. Latest white-knuckle-ride of an installment below
To recap, the RD cable was found to be somewhat sketchy; kinked, frayed and possibly the cause of the dodgy shifting on the rear so I elected to replace it. As usual this snowballed to include a load of other jobs with progress being delayed thanks to my indecision as to which components to buy and supplier delays in some cases.
I finally had all the bits at the back end of last week, consisting of:
- 5m brake cable outer (Fibrax)
- 4x stainless brake cable inners (Shimano)
- 2x inline brake barrel adjustors (Avid)
- 4m gear cable outer (Fibrax)
- 2x stainless gear cable inners (Clarks)
All was pretty much as cheap as I could find without buying obvious crap, and I think all of the above came in at about £30 give or take. I've found all of these parts so far to be great, and am happy to pass on details of where they were sourced from etc if anyone fancies some.
What I'd upsold to myself as a morning's work inevitably ended up swallowing most of the weekend. The first job was to remove the long-suffering bar tape while keeping a record of how it was wrapped as well as the cable routing its removal exposed.
Despite a recent cleaning, there's still a fair difference in colour between the exposed and covered sections of the bar tape:
Then it was on to removal of the rest of the relevant stuff - brake levers, shifters, all cables - then giving the bars a good clean with some paraffin to get rid of the tape residue. They're pretty intricately-shaped for budget bars, while the graduations for lever position were very much appreciated on reassembly:
The brake levers were stripped and cleaned; one binding lever-stop button (that's pressed in to give some more cable slack to facilitate wheel removal I think) was found to be bent, so this was straightened before the whole lot was reassembled with a sparing amount of synthetic grease on the pivots for sily smooth operation
Here's what a TRP RRL looks like in bits, if anyone's bothered:
While the brakes were in bits I also tidied up the outer edges of the barrel adjustors' plastic outers and steel inners witha spherical grinding bit in the rotary tool, to remove some of the general roughness / damage that had occured when one of the cable outers failed.
I didn't delve too deep into the shifters as total disassembly required the removal of a spring clip, for which I didn't have a tool and even if I did I could see a high probability of it disappearing at speed into some dark corner of the kitchen, so I left well alone. I did take the opportunity to re-secure the loose plastic lever covers to the levers with a couple of dabs of superglue.
The re-cabling proper was far from straightforward since I wanted to re-assess the original less-than-ideal cable lengths and routing, as well as adding the inline adjustors to the brake cables.
Once the brake levers and shifters were refitted I started with the front brake cable; using the original as a guide to try to gauge optimum routing and length. It seemed that the original was too long as it didn't enter the ferrule on the brake's noodle square, while a new replacement of the same length caused the noodle to kick out forward away from the bike. Eventually I ended up with a total cable length about 60mm shorter than it was originally, with the barrel adjuster positioned just before the noodle in the area of cable subject to the least curvature.
The back brake was a similar story, with limited space for the adjustor but I got it in there and it looks pretty decent. I also lost about 15mm from the rear section of outer as this had similar issues to the front. Since both cable runs were shortened I got away with trimming and re-using the orignal cable inners - so that was a score!
While not as nice as others the brakes feel noticeably slicker / more snappy / positive in use; also setup is now a lot easier thanks to the fine adjustment afforded by the Avid parts. It's also interesting to note that now the outer cable runs are shorter there's a lot less cable movement when the levers are pulled; which I think has removed a little spongyness. They're still heavier than others but I think this may be down to return spring tension on the brakes themselves.
On to the gears and I'd hoped to try different cable routing at the bars to give some larger rads on the cables, however ended up going with pretty much the same format in this area as they were arranged in originally as options were limited. I considered butchering the bars to allow internal routing, but quickly sacked that idea off considering its potential for grief.
I did elect to run the gear cables to the cable stops on the opposite sides of the frame - originally each cable went to the closest stop on the same side of the bike as the shifter it served; however this was crap as it caused a lot of interference between the cables and head tube, required tighter rads than necessary and served to push the cables out quite far away from the frame.
Running the cables to opposite sides meant crossing them under the down tube so they continued to go to the correct derailleur, however a bit of research confirmed that this is not only perfectly acceptable but a fairly common approach (certainly on older bikes).
The gear cable outers are now a bit shorter at the front and the same length at the back. I managed to re-use the front inner cable but the back one was goosed (which of course is what precipitated this whole job) so was replaced with a new item.
As it stands there's still a bit to be done - bars need re-wrapping, cables trimming, indexing checking / tweaking and the crusty O-ring buffers on the rear brake cable replaced at the top tube to prevent cable slap.
I've always hankered for a bike with brown bar tape and saddle, however having removed the tape I quite like the front end black, so might go this way if I have cause to re-wrap the bars (the current tape's a bit tatty but I'm hoping to get away with it).
I'll chuck up some more photos when it's actually done, but for now those below show before and after shots of the cable routing at the front - doesn't tell the whole story and certainly doesn't appear to be a lot to show for two day's work, but it's a necessary job done and I'm so far very happy with how it's turned out
Hoping to get it back in a useable condition later today and maybe take it out for a quick setup / shakedown; then I might put my hand in my pocket for some actual pannier bags
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Typically life got in the way of much progress this week; however the bars are now wrapped, brakes & gears setup and the only significantly excessive length of cable (RD) gently looped back on itself and taped neatly to its outer.
The bike had a short outing earlier; the first since I've done all of the work (fit guards & rack, replace cables..). I took a more extensive than usual compliment of tools but it wasn't necessary - the only required tweak being to add a bit more friction to the FD shifter to keep it where it should be when set to the top ring.
On the down side the once-bent button on the LH brake lever still sticks in, meaning that when inevitably playing with it mid-ride you end up with a lot more lever travel than ideal.. I think it's the retainer rubbing the button's OD but that'll require the lever fully stripping again to check and sort.
Other than that I was really impressed. The issue with the gears ghost-shifting appears to have gone; while gear selection is a pleasure with the indexed rear shifter feeling really crisp and precise, the front feeling slick and forgiving.
There's next to no drivertain noise in any gear and the chain will happily play with the full range of the 9 speed cassette when set to the middle ring on the front. It's really nice to get back to a triple and it feels perfect for this utilitarian application, with its silly-low 26/34 bottom end and 571% range.
The brakes too feel noticeably slicker and more positive, a little less spongy and maybe with a bit more bite.
The more I ride this bike the more I appreciate its spec - somewhat austere, retrograde and unfashionable; but at the same time characterful, involving and hopefully practical, robust, reliable and cheap to maintain.
There are a few more small jobs still to do but it seems the bike is almost there - just need the pannier bags and new saddle to arrive then I should be able to press it into service
The bike had a short outing earlier; the first since I've done all of the work (fit guards & rack, replace cables..). I took a more extensive than usual compliment of tools but it wasn't necessary - the only required tweak being to add a bit more friction to the FD shifter to keep it where it should be when set to the top ring.
On the down side the once-bent button on the LH brake lever still sticks in, meaning that when inevitably playing with it mid-ride you end up with a lot more lever travel than ideal.. I think it's the retainer rubbing the button's OD but that'll require the lever fully stripping again to check and sort.
Other than that I was really impressed. The issue with the gears ghost-shifting appears to have gone; while gear selection is a pleasure with the indexed rear shifter feeling really crisp and precise, the front feeling slick and forgiving.
There's next to no drivertain noise in any gear and the chain will happily play with the full range of the 9 speed cassette when set to the middle ring on the front. It's really nice to get back to a triple and it feels perfect for this utilitarian application, with its silly-low 26/34 bottom end and 571% range.
The brakes too feel noticeably slicker and more positive, a little less spongy and maybe with a bit more bite.
The more I ride this bike the more I appreciate its spec - somewhat austere, retrograde and unfashionable; but at the same time characterful, involving and hopefully practical, robust, reliable and cheap to maintain.
There are a few more small jobs still to do but it seems the bike is almost there - just need the pannier bags and new saddle to arrive then I should be able to press it into service
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The bags and saddle arrived earlier in the week and are now fitted
I had a short ride earlier in the hope of getting some eggs (nope) and photos..
The front Avid in-line adjustor that went on with the new cables - would highly recommend these.
The rear adjustor, which was harder to position than the front but I think ended up in about the best place.
Conveniently, randomly placed branding on the cables; which so far are perfoming nicely..
Re-wrapped bars are best described as "acceptable", but are a bit wonky and could be better. The tape seems to have held up well considering what it's probably been subjected to. Still need to do something with most of the cable ends..
I took the leap, cracked out the hairdryer and removed the conformity sticker from the base of the down tube as its red and white aesthetic / slightly nanny state overtones grated with the rest of the bike. I figured the "built in China" job could stay as it's a lot less conspicuous..
The rear brake cable originally had three yellow plastic "donuts" on its exposed section to prevent it noisily hitting the top tube. These were crusty (and probably originally white), so they were sacked off in favour of some BS104 O-rings I happened to have kicking about.. which fit perfectly
The slightly shorter external brake cable run at the rear; probably still a shade longer than ideal looking at the angle of noodle-entry, however any shorter and the noodle would probably have fouled the rack under braking.
The saddle is a slightly-impulse-purchased Brand X item that came from SJS Cycles along with the bags. I wasn't getting on with the Brookes and ideally wanted to replace it with something analagous to the saddle on my Genesis; which is made by Velo and apparently shares its shape with a number of other Velo-made items sold under different names. Along with a used Genesis, another option was a Charge Plug (new about £24) and this Brand-X item at £12.
My inner Yorkshireman won and here we are.. Give or take a millimetre (easily swallowed in production tolerances) it's the same length and width as the Genesis, and appears to be the same shape. Foam feels a shade harder, the covering more grippy and textured. I've seen images of these saddles with Velo moulded on the underside; which this one doesn't. Maybe no longer added at the factory, or maybe the brand are now sourcing the same design elsewhere. Regardless, it felt good for today's short ride so fingers' crossed it remains that way.
Truth be told I was a bit intimidated / daunted by the bags at first as they're a lot of extra gear to have hanging off the bike. They went onto the rack well, I think I have enough heel clearance, quality seems very good and I think they look great. It was a toss-up between the grey and orange; the latter I think would have looked good on this bike but less-so on others so I took the safe option in case I want to use these on another bike in future.
The bags are user-friendly and easy to operate (at least so far on today's dry run, which didn't see them removed from the bike). As illustrated by the pic below, they're fapping cavernous!
I'd like to mention SJS Cycles who supplied the bags - they were a fair wedge cheaper than anyone else (about £112 delivered, versus a broader average of around £130+) and IME have always been a decent company to deal with.
Today the bags only carried my camera and lock, however I'm looking forward to loading them up a bit more. While handling the bike all this made it feel very arse-heavy, however it didn't really feel any different to ride.. which bodes well for when there's a lot more mass in the bags.
On the whole I'm very happy with the bike as it stands; although as always there's still more to be done. Despite my optimism last time the gears still ghost-shift, so they're remaining in friction mode for now until I can lash up a RD hanger tool. I also need to refit the rear light with a bit of bodgery and sort out a decent front light. I'm sort of tempted to mod the stand that came off so it fits properly and start using it again; as I imagine attempting to fit and remove bags is less fun with the bike leaning against stuff..
Anyway, time will tell... looking forward to using it in anger for the first time
I had a short ride earlier in the hope of getting some eggs (nope) and photos..
The front Avid in-line adjustor that went on with the new cables - would highly recommend these.
The rear adjustor, which was harder to position than the front but I think ended up in about the best place.
Conveniently, randomly placed branding on the cables; which so far are perfoming nicely..
Re-wrapped bars are best described as "acceptable", but are a bit wonky and could be better. The tape seems to have held up well considering what it's probably been subjected to. Still need to do something with most of the cable ends..
I took the leap, cracked out the hairdryer and removed the conformity sticker from the base of the down tube as its red and white aesthetic / slightly nanny state overtones grated with the rest of the bike. I figured the "built in China" job could stay as it's a lot less conspicuous..
The rear brake cable originally had three yellow plastic "donuts" on its exposed section to prevent it noisily hitting the top tube. These were crusty (and probably originally white), so they were sacked off in favour of some BS104 O-rings I happened to have kicking about.. which fit perfectly
The slightly shorter external brake cable run at the rear; probably still a shade longer than ideal looking at the angle of noodle-entry, however any shorter and the noodle would probably have fouled the rack under braking.
The saddle is a slightly-impulse-purchased Brand X item that came from SJS Cycles along with the bags. I wasn't getting on with the Brookes and ideally wanted to replace it with something analagous to the saddle on my Genesis; which is made by Velo and apparently shares its shape with a number of other Velo-made items sold under different names. Along with a used Genesis, another option was a Charge Plug (new about £24) and this Brand-X item at £12.
My inner Yorkshireman won and here we are.. Give or take a millimetre (easily swallowed in production tolerances) it's the same length and width as the Genesis, and appears to be the same shape. Foam feels a shade harder, the covering more grippy and textured. I've seen images of these saddles with Velo moulded on the underside; which this one doesn't. Maybe no longer added at the factory, or maybe the brand are now sourcing the same design elsewhere. Regardless, it felt good for today's short ride so fingers' crossed it remains that way.
Truth be told I was a bit intimidated / daunted by the bags at first as they're a lot of extra gear to have hanging off the bike. They went onto the rack well, I think I have enough heel clearance, quality seems very good and I think they look great. It was a toss-up between the grey and orange; the latter I think would have looked good on this bike but less-so on others so I took the safe option in case I want to use these on another bike in future.
The bags are user-friendly and easy to operate (at least so far on today's dry run, which didn't see them removed from the bike). As illustrated by the pic below, they're fapping cavernous!
I'd like to mention SJS Cycles who supplied the bags - they were a fair wedge cheaper than anyone else (about £112 delivered, versus a broader average of around £130+) and IME have always been a decent company to deal with.
Today the bags only carried my camera and lock, however I'm looking forward to loading them up a bit more. While handling the bike all this made it feel very arse-heavy, however it didn't really feel any different to ride.. which bodes well for when there's a lot more mass in the bags.
On the whole I'm very happy with the bike as it stands; although as always there's still more to be done. Despite my optimism last time the gears still ghost-shift, so they're remaining in friction mode for now until I can lash up a RD hanger tool. I also need to refit the rear light with a bit of bodgery and sort out a decent front light. I'm sort of tempted to mod the stand that came off so it fits properly and start using it again; as I imagine attempting to fit and remove bags is less fun with the bike leaning against stuff..
Anyway, time will tell... looking forward to using it in anger for the first time
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DCBassman
Guru
- Location
- The lumpy far South West
The levers are seemingly not entirely compatible with V-brakes, and these have helped with the setup.
Aye, as above - they're decent when setup but adjustment is critical and trying to shunt the cable through the clamp by half a mil at a time is tedious when attempting to fine-tune / account for pad wear. The adjustors make this a far less unpleasant proposition
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After some midnight post-pub-poking it appears that there's a reasonable amount of play in my cassette; which I think might be causing / contributing to the ghost shifting issue.
The hub is a Shimano M610 which is apparently intended for 8/9/10 speed cassettes, and the cassette is a nine speed 11-34 (HG400 I think). According to the info I can find this should fit straight on without the need for a spacer; so assuming this is actually the case I guess I'm looking at play in the freehub... so another job to add to today's growing list
The hub is a Shimano M610 which is apparently intended for 8/9/10 speed cassettes, and the cassette is a nine speed 11-34 (HG400 I think). According to the info I can find this should fit straight on without the need for a spacer; so assuming this is actually the case I guess I'm looking at play in the freehub... so another job to add to today's growing list
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T4tomo
Legendary Member
Because he's not a neanderthal.
Its got v brakes which don't have in built fine tuning like a caliper does (because the fine tuner is usually on the flat bar lever) and he's running it off drops. With in line adjuster you can compensate for pad wear simply and easily and more quickly that re-clamping a cable and leaving a messy looking double clamped cable-end.
lol - thanks 😊
Good case in point today as it happens; while the levers do have a facility to give some more cable slack to allow the noodle to be removed from its bracket so the wheel can be got out, mine's sticking but I managed to get enough room to get the brakes apart by winding the adjustor off four turns..
I also agree about the clamping - I try to avoid messing about with the clamps more than I have to as ultimately knackers the cable; making it look nasty, increasing its chance of failure and reducing its potential for re-use if it has to be pulled back through the outers for any reason.
Further to my last post the cassette's now off and the fit on the hub confirmed as OK as the hub sits noticeably lower than the face of the cassette that engages the lockring; so the play is in the hub. Off to do some research as to how to strip it; and can hopefully get away with a re-lube and adjustment rather than a new hub..
