pawl
Legendary Member
- Location
- Desford Leicestershire
Should I, she, or we pay this private companies parking fine?
- Thread starter Accy cyclist
- Start date
- Status
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mustang1
Legendary Member
- Location
- London, UK
+1. And split it. Consider it an investment in the friendship of a nice person that you helped (by taking her to the shop).
DRM
Guru
- Location
- West Yorks
All I’ll say is, if you and your friend pay the charge and draw a line under it, it’s done, do you really want the bailiffs knocking on your door, and ever increasing costs for the sake of £22.50?
winjim
Smash the cistern
I recently got charged for overstaying in an Iceland car park. I'd gone to buy a cheap pushchair from the charity shop next door. Took it for a spin and my kid fell asleep so I couldn't get him back in the car til he woke up. For the cost of the parking I might as well have bought a brand new pushchair and had it delivered to my door.
Stephenite
Membå
- Location
- OslO
Pay the parking charge.
Don't take money from your friend.
Learn from the experience.
Don't take money from your friend.
Learn from the experience.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
This is a civil trespass which means the parking company is only entitled to damages.
What damages have they suffered?
Accy cannot be fairly said to have worn out the asphalt by driving in and out, and he parked somewhere where there were plenty of spaces, thus the parking company suffered no damages in the sense of being unable to offer other users parking.
As said, Beavis is a case oft quoted by the parking company because they won it.
I don't blame them for that, to the victor the spoils.
The question in Beavis was whether the £80-odd quid charge was 'unconscionable' in terms of damages.
The judge decided it was not in that case.
My policy is to avoid getting this type of ticket in the first place.
The last one I received was about two years ago for overstaying 10 minutes.
I declined to pay it.
Similar to Accy, I caused no damages.
No private company can fine a citizen, the criminal courts do that, which is why the parking companies are always careful to use the word 'charge', even though £50 for parking for 10 minutes in an otherwise free car park is a penalty, aka a fine.
I received a series of threats from a series of companies - the 'cases' are routinely sold in bulk from one company to another.
One of the letters from a solicitor came very close to breaking their code of practice in terms of misleading the recipient as to what could happen.
The most recent letter was, if I recall, early this year, so I think they've probably given up.
A handful of cases are taken to the county court.
I would be content for that to happen and I would mount a brief defence if it did.
Whether Accy wants to take that relatively small risk is up to him.
Some people cannot face appearing in court, although most county courts are more like offices and are not adversarial in the sense the district judge is always looking to settle matters amicably.
Worth bearing in mind costs are not awarded in small claims under £5,000.
Double edged sword, Accy wouldn't get any any of his costs if there were any, but he need not fear being landed with a big bill by the other side if he loses.
On t'other hand, £22.50 for half an hour is a lot more palatable than the £90 for 10 minutes I was looking at, so paying swiftly, split with his friend, is a viable option.
What damages have they suffered?
Accy cannot be fairly said to have worn out the asphalt by driving in and out, and he parked somewhere where there were plenty of spaces, thus the parking company suffered no damages in the sense of being unable to offer other users parking.
As said, Beavis is a case oft quoted by the parking company because they won it.
I don't blame them for that, to the victor the spoils.
The question in Beavis was whether the £80-odd quid charge was 'unconscionable' in terms of damages.
The judge decided it was not in that case.
My policy is to avoid getting this type of ticket in the first place.
The last one I received was about two years ago for overstaying 10 minutes.
I declined to pay it.
Similar to Accy, I caused no damages.
No private company can fine a citizen, the criminal courts do that, which is why the parking companies are always careful to use the word 'charge', even though £50 for parking for 10 minutes in an otherwise free car park is a penalty, aka a fine.
I received a series of threats from a series of companies - the 'cases' are routinely sold in bulk from one company to another.
One of the letters from a solicitor came very close to breaking their code of practice in terms of misleading the recipient as to what could happen.
The most recent letter was, if I recall, early this year, so I think they've probably given up.
A handful of cases are taken to the county court.
I would be content for that to happen and I would mount a brief defence if it did.
Whether Accy wants to take that relatively small risk is up to him.
Some people cannot face appearing in court, although most county courts are more like offices and are not adversarial in the sense the district judge is always looking to settle matters amicably.
Worth bearing in mind costs are not awarded in small claims under £5,000.
Double edged sword, Accy wouldn't get any any of his costs if there were any, but he need not fear being landed with a big bill by the other side if he loses.
On t'other hand, £22.50 for half an hour is a lot more palatable than the £90 for 10 minutes I was looking at, so paying swiftly, split with his friend, is a viable option.
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
No he didn't- they locked him up and threw away the key...
lazybloke
Today i follow the flying spaghetti monster
- Location
- Leafy Surrey
A local pub operates a parking charging scheme, enforced with ANPR, although a car park 100 yards away is completely free!. I noticed the other day a big screen with my car's reg' number on it as i drove on, saying words to the affect of YOU NOW HAVE 3 HOURS OF FREE PARKING. They must all be at it. Talk about big brother is watching you!!
It's not "big brother", it's a way of dealing with inconsiderate motorists.
Archie_tect
De Skieven Architek... aka Penfold + Horace
- Location
- Northumberland
The responses to this thread tells us a lot about each other.
OP
OP
Accy cyclist
Legendary Member
- Location
- The hills of Accrington
This is why i'm not just going to pay it like some on here would do. These firms rely on compliance for their profits. If they issue 100 of these 'invoices' and 90 of those receiving them comply and pay without question then they are happy. Is it in their interest to chase up the 10 who don't pay up?
Like i said earlier i'll ask the Citizens Advice when i see them on Thursday what they suggest. It's not about the money either. £22.50, even £90 isn't a problem.
winjim
Smash the cistern
I think the Beavis case put an end to the idea of 'damages' wrt parking and legitimised deterrent charges as part of business operations.
But sure, crack on. Let us know how you do, it'll be worth a laugh.
Had a couple of "parking discrepancies"
1) Parked at a local country park and paid for a ticket. Unfortunately, as we have two cars, I entered the wrong registration number! Wrote back and explained and they let me off.
2) Parked a couple of times in disabled bays when with my daughter in her motobility car. Both times, in the stress of helping her out of the car, forgot to display the Blue Badge. Both times, appealed and both times, they let me off.
Is there an appeals process? Always worth a try, if you tell them the truth and ask for mercy. I don't think they can increase the penalty while an appeal is being processed (may be wrong).
1) Parked at a local country park and paid for a ticket. Unfortunately, as we have two cars, I entered the wrong registration number! Wrote back and explained and they let me off.
2) Parked a couple of times in disabled bays when with my daughter in her motobility car. Both times, in the stress of helping her out of the car, forgot to display the Blue Badge. Both times, appealed and both times, they let me off.
Is there an appeals process? Always worth a try, if you tell them the truth and ask for mercy. I don't think they can increase the penalty while an appeal is being processed (may be wrong).
winjim
Smash the cistern
Both of those are reasonable reasons. I've appealed parking penalties when they were unreasonable and also when I've failed myself to display the correct permit. That's been local council parking though, not private companies. My wife and I have both paid up immediately when we've overstayed in a private car park. Indeed, she sees it as an inevitable surcharge of being a busy, overworked, distracted parent. It becomes easier to deal with when you start to think of it in that way.
You say tell the truth, but if the truth in this case is 'I was wearing a hideous jacket so I didn't want to go into your shop' then I think that might be quite difficult to defend. If an additional truth is 'I need to draw out this case in order to fulfil the need I have for validation by means of shitposting on social media', then that might be something that needs addressing by someone with a different type of expertise than a parking enforcement company.
Err, yes.... see Beavis v ParkingEye.....I think you'll find that they do sue and you've admitted you saw the signs.
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
In general, too much is made of 'case law' and 'precedents', neither of which mean what many people think they do.
It may have been a High Court judge who passed judgment in Beavis, but no judge can change the law, which remains the same.
Just because Beavis lost, it does not mean that every other motorist will lose.
Put another way, had Beavis won, it would not make every subsequent private parking ticket unenforceable.
Beavis was a good win for the parking companies, but changes nothing with regard to establishing damages.
Post Beavis, parking companies continue to win and lose cases, each of which is judged on its own merits.
Some enforcement is needed, for example when drivers use the supermarket car park to park all day for work elsewhere.
Taking nine hours of free parking every working day is a great deal different to once overstaying a 90 minute limit by 10 minutes.
Not every case is pursued.
Parking Eye declined to pursue my most recent ticket, which was post Beavis.
Instead, they chose to flog it as part of a job lot to another company, who wrote a few letters then did the same again.
The whole process is rather low rent, reminiscent of the trade in credit card and other personal details.
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