Secondhand Raleigh Junior Rigid MTB: lemon or worth a punt?

[Reynard]

If you mean the freewheel oscilates slightly when you spin the wheel, 'they all do that' to a greater or lesser degree.As for the current set up you can tell Raleigh 'mackled' it a bit by fitting a full size nut to the axle instead of a half thickness cone locknut as is usual, this is a bodge I've used myself to

1) get a 126mm wide freewheel type wheel to fit nicely in a bike with 130mm spacing.*
2) enable a 7 speed freewheel to fit onto the axle with clearance to the dropout

BTW a 'through axle' is a completely different type of wheel to that fitted to yours, it's basically a long bolt that pushes all the way through the hub and screws into threads in the frame dropout. I suspect that the type you mean is a QR wheel (quick release) that has a long thin skewer through a hollow axle tube that you clamp with a lever instead of nuts.


View: https://youtu.be/4w6uqN_Pips


This should show the difference

* I suspect Raleigh did this as they had a whole shelf full of hubs that they needed to use up and fitting a thicker nut allowed this.

Ah, thanks for that. Must get my terminology right. Sounds like Raleigh had their own equivalent of the BL parts bin...

Anyways, no, it's not the freewheel that's oscillating. This is with the freewheel removed. When you look at the axle sideways on, the end that goes through the freewheel body wiggles above and below the axis of rotation.

It's not a terribly big wiggle (for the want of a better term) but it *is* there. Which suggests that the axle is bent. And putting two and two together, I wonder if that has something to do with the broken and twisted teeth on the freewheel...

 

[Illaveago]

Interesting project.
I was just looking at the picture of the wheel in the frame and the axle does look bent.

 

[raleighnut]

Sounds like Raleigh had their own equivalent of the BL parts bin...

The BL parts bin had nothing on Raleigh,I think they invented 'badge engineering', so many of the bikes from the 80s and 90s were virtually identical apart from paint jobs and a better model was often down to fitting 'better' components to the same frame. Don't get me wrong Raleigh bikes had a certain 'feel' to them, secure and 'planted' on the road due to their frame geometry (until they came out with the Chopper) but then the 'bean counters' came in and ruined the biggest bike manufacturer in the world.

 

[Reynard]

The BL parts bin had nothing on Raleigh,I think they invented 'badge engineering', so many of the bikes from the 80s and 90s were virtually identical apart from paint jobs and a better model was often down to fitting 'better' components to the same frame. Don't get me wrong Raleigh bikes had a certain 'feel' to them, secure and 'planted' on the road due to their frame geometry (until they came out with the Chopper) but then the 'bean counters' came in and ruined the biggest bike manufacturer in the world.

Well, BL started it, if nothing else (I have a Mk2 Mini, so tell me about it...), but it sounds like Raleigh took it to another level.

Anyways, "planted" is definitely how I'd say this bike felt when I took it for a brief spin.

 

[raleighnut]

I have a Mk2 Mini, so tell me about it

Are they the ones with the bit of string to open the doors or is that the Mk1, I used to work on a very early Mini at my mates garage and that had some weird features like a manual starter switch on the floor near the handbrake which was great until the exhaust touched the exposed terminals.

 

[Reynard]

Are they the ones with the bit of string to open the doors or is that the Mk1, I used to work on a very early Mini at my mates garage and that had some weird features like a manual starter switch on the floor near the handbrake which was great until the exhaust touched the exposed terminals.

That's the Mk1. The early ones were nothing if not idiosyncratic...

 

[12boy]

My first car choice was between 2 $600 candidates...A Mini and a 8 year old Jaguar sedan. I went with the Jag and blew the engine in less than a year. It was sold and I saw it years later with a big Chevy V8 still tooling around. Always wondered how long, with my stupidity, it would have taken to trash the Mini. There were not a lot of good mechanics to work on either car in Albuquerque New Mexico in 1964.

 

[Illaveago]

Are they the ones with the bit of string to open the doors or is that the Mk1, I used to work on a very early Mini at my mates garage and that had some weird features like a manual starter switch on the floor near the handbrake which was great until the exhaust touched the exposed terminals.

The mk 2 had internal door hinges, wind up door windows and squarish rear lights . The number plate lamp was above the number plate .

 

[Reynard]

Not much time to tinker today due to a comedy of errors with a car headlight bulb. Entirely my fault.

But I did remove the Chang Star alloy brake levers from the Emmelle. Had to sacrifice the grips to do that (a hacksaw job), but I've never liked those grips anyway, so it's no biggie. The levers and mounts are a bit scuffed, but then they would be after 35 years. They are perfectly serviceable though, and *anything* would be better than those ghastly plastic levers...

 

[Reynard]

The mk 2 had internal door hinges, wind up door windows and squarish rear lights . The number plate lamp was above the number plate .

Nope, not quite...

Still external hinges and sliding windows, but it did have the large rear light clusters. The Mk3 (1970 onwards) had internal door hinges and wind up windows, but the very last Mk2 cars did have the Mk3 windows and colours.

Oh, and the Mk3 rear light cluster had the white reversing light, whereas the Mk2 doesn't.

 

[Reynard]

Today's tinkering involved cleaning and servicing the brake levers I took off the Emmelle and the Wellgo flats that were in my box of bits. The levers came up rather nicely, and they'll certainly do the job. Just as an interesting aside, both levers are identical, so in the left housing, the button at the end of the cable fits in the top, and on the right, the cable fits in the bottom. A nod to ease of manufacture and cost-cutting.

Prior to reading up how to use a crank extractor and taking the cranks off (Monday's task, methinks), I've put a red tag in the left crank and a green tag in the right one. That way I won't make a mistake when re-assembling.

The axle is definitely bent. I put the wheel in the workmate, stuck a bamboo skewer vertically in a piece of florist's oasis and used the tip of the skewer as a reference point while rotating the axle. The problem is the threaded end on the drive side, which is perhaps 1/16 of an inch out. I'd guess it's rideable for now, but I certainly wouldn't want to trust it in the long term.

That aside, another area of concern is the bottom bracket. It doesn't spin as freely as it should, only rotating a couple of times after giving it a whirl before coming to a stop. Ergo, a bottom bracket removal thingy is next on the shopping list.

The drive train on this bike definitely has its issues. I haven't found anything yet that hasn't had a problem.

 

[12boy]

Had a friend who liked to say "never bitch when your wife has some godawful job for you. Use it as an excuse to buy another tool." Bikes are like that.....in fact just the other day I treated myself to some chain pliers as the quick link on my Shimano 10 speed chain was a bugger. When you are done with that bike you will be able to take it all apart and then reassemble it with one hand behind your back and blindfolded. Riding a bike you've refurbished to your specs and that works as you wish is such a good feeling.

 

[Reynard]

Riding a bike you've refurbished to your specs and that works as you wish is such a good feeling.

I think that's the motivation behind this.

Have been hankering after a bike to use when I don't want to take out the other two because it's too mucky. Though admittedly while I haven't been looking terribly hard as it's a luxury, not a necessity, I've struggled to find something off-the-shelf that's in my budget, the right size and the right spec. Covid hasn't made things easier either.

This way is much more fun in the long run, even if it's not going to be straightforward. Plus I enjoy the process of learning new things, whether theoretical or practical - I did spend a decade in academia after all.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

That aside, another area of concern is the bottom bracket. It doesn't spin as freely as it should, only rotating a couple of times after giving it a whirl before coming to a stop. Ergo, a bottom bracket removal thingy is next on the shopping list.

The drive train on this bike definitely has its issues. I haven't found anything yet that hasn't had a problem.

I don't possess a BB removal tool and I've stripped out loads of threaded BB's. What I use is a steel drift or big blunt screwdriver for loosening the lockring, and a decent adjustable spanner with accurate parallel jaws for undoing the cups. If I encounter the dimpled type, I use a punch in the holes.
On the non-drive side I first remove the lockring and then try the BB cup to see if it will come out easily. If it won't, I lay the bike on it's side and spray penetrating oil into the threads and leave it like that to soak in for a day or two, reapplying more fluid every few hours if I remember. I've never failed yet although a few have been stubborn. If the drive side is really tight and doesn't want to come out, I clean it out in situ, and regrease it the same way. No point in fighting with it unless the cup is knackered and it has to come out or I'm scrapping the frame and I want the parts for spares.
Regarding the state of yours mechanically, I suspect being a junior size it has probably been well thrashed and jumped by a boy of the sort of age who thinks they are indestructible, so the bike must be too. Been there myself, thrashing 5 speed "racers".

 

[Reynard]

I don't possess a BB removal tool and I've stripped out loads of threaded BB's. What I use is a steel drift or big blunt screwdriver for loosening the lockring, and a decent adjustable spanner with accurate parallel jaws for undoing the cups. If I encounter the dimpled type, I use a punch in the holes.
On the non-drive side I first remove the lockring and then try the BB cup to see if it will come out easily. If it won't, I lay the bike on it's side and spray penetrating oil into the threads and leave it like that to soak in for a day or two, reapplying more fluid every few hours if I remember. I've never failed yet although a few have been stubborn. If the drive side is really tight and doesn't want to come out, I clean it out in situ, and regrease it the same way. No point in fighting with it unless the cup is knackered and it has to come out or I'm scrapping the frame and I want the parts for spares.
Regarding the state of yours mechanically, I suspect being a junior size it has probably been well thrashed and jumped by a boy of the sort of age who thinks they are indestructible, so the bike must be too. Been there myself, thrashing 5 speed "racers".

Ah, but what you have that I don't is years of experience, nous and a spanner that's big enough.

But this is precisely what puzzles me about the bike. Other than a few scrapes plus one bigger area of paint loss on the chainstays, the rest of the paintwork is almost pristine, the shifters, grips and brake levers aren't scuffed, the bars turn smoothly, the original saddle was in good order and the wheel rims, hubs and spokes were ok too. If the bike had been thrashed and trashed, I'd have expected to see it in far worse condition overall - especially the plastic parts.

Looking at the pattern of damage (strength of materials and destructive testing is my background btw), I'm coming to the conclusion that the chain must have got jammed, and that considerable force was used in order to free it. Crashing wouldn't cause that kind of torsional deformation to the sprocket teeth. And if the axle is bent, the same could potentially be true of the BB spindle if someone applied the leverage to free the chain via the pedals.

Time will tell with the latter. I haven't got that far with it yet...