Once a Wheeler
…always a wheeler
Some people find the concept of science quite difficult:
Science deniers. WTF?
- Thread starter Salty seadog
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Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
Because the higher the altitude, the lower the temperature at which water boils, and ergo the eggs would take longer to cook. Basic GCSE physics IIRC...
OK, some of the science I learned at school bored me to tears (never was interested in biology), but chemistry and physics were largely quite good fun.
And science is a sneaky devil anyway, as it underpins a lot of the techniques and understanding of cooking. Like why a bread does (or doesn't) rise, that a recipe for a cake using baking powder is essentially a chemical formula in the form of ingredients. It's why you need to be careful when making mayonnaise (emulsions), and why putting raw flour in a sauce won't thicken it, but if you cook it out first when making a roux, it will. Science is knowing that if whisking egg whites, your bowl and whisk need to be degreased if you want to maximize the end volume, and that if you seal your preserves when still very hot, it will make them keep for a very long time thanks to the vacuum produced inside the jar as the contents cool. And it's also understanding why a properly-cooked steak tastes so good aka the Maillard reaction...
I'm sure science deniers do like a properly-cooked meal... Oh, if only they knew
Time Waster
Veteran
Route directions, from the eagles head pub to to the end of the road, turn left then second right. Third house on the left.
Do you need to know the roads to get where you're going?
Cooking as science doesn't need the science only the method and ingredients. That's not science ppl are doing but a form of rote learning and crib sheets.
I agree that science is everywhere but you need to look and want to look. If not then it might as well not be there. Or at least it doesn't matter that it is.
Unfortunately that's the truth with the way science is taught. We can mostly all read a book and appreciate it. That's not what happens with science.
Although I doubt it's just the teaching but culture. Our culture is increasingly anti knowledge and education. I work with a guy who gets annoyed that I have a good general knowledge. He says nobody should know that stuff and other similar things. He's proud he doesn't know stuff, that he left school without many qualifications.
Do you need to know the roads to get where you're going?
Cooking as science doesn't need the science only the method and ingredients. That's not science ppl are doing but a form of rote learning and crib sheets.
I agree that science is everywhere but you need to look and want to look. If not then it might as well not be there. Or at least it doesn't matter that it is.
Unfortunately that's the truth with the way science is taught. We can mostly all read a book and appreciate it. That's not what happens with science.
Although I doubt it's just the teaching but culture. Our culture is increasingly anti knowledge and education. I work with a guy who gets annoyed that I have a good general knowledge. He says nobody should know that stuff and other similar things. He's proud he doesn't know stuff, that he left school without many qualifications.
Joey Shabadoo
My pronouns are "He", "Him" and "buggerlugs"
Many years ago when I was an apprentice, the difference between a naval artificer and a mechanic was explained thus:
A mechanic can see the broken part, dissassemble the machine, replace the part (maybe even with a bit of fabrication), then reassemble the machine to get it working again.
An artificer understands why the part broke in the first place and fixes the cause.
Knowing things by rote is fine if everything stays the same. Introduce change and you need a deeper understanding - that's where science comes in.
A mechanic can see the broken part, dissassemble the machine, replace the part (maybe even with a bit of fabrication), then reassemble the machine to get it working again.
An artificer understands why the part broke in the first place and fixes the cause.
Knowing things by rote is fine if everything stays the same. Introduce change and you need a deeper understanding - that's where science comes in.
Lee_M
Guru
I'm sure if the moon landings had been faked it would have been faked a lot better, and NA wouldn't have messed up his famous line.
classic33
Leg End Member
Did he mess "his line" up though?
https://www.science.org/content/article/linguists-question-armstrong-s-famous-moon-landing-quote
https://www.science.org/content/article/linguists-question-armstrong-s-famous-moon-landing-quote
Electric_Andy
Heavy Metal Fan
- Location
- Plymouth
I see where she's coming from, but school is not all about predicting what kids might need to know in the future. Algebra (for example) might not be of much use, but it might inspire the child to want to do maths at a higher level and associated career. I do think they should teach "life skills" in secondary school. Definately about savings and mortgages, and budgets, planning etc. Even 30 years ago we had mandatory cooking lessons ("Technology lessons rotated through woodowrk, metalwork, cooking, sewing, plastic fabrication). But take cooking as an example, we got told how to make scone-based pizza, and a pudding. I think it would be better to teach a wider range of basic cooking skills such as chopping veg to use as a base, how to make sauces, how to thicken something or how to brown meat before cooking, that sort of thing. How long to cook rice and pasta for, how to drain it, what flavours go well together and what to avoid. Most people who can't cook, can actually cook but lack the confidence to try things in case they get it wrong.
Profpointy
Legendary Member
Which line, the enigmatic "Good luck Mr Gorski"?
Fab Foodie
hanging-on in quiet desperation ...
- Location
- Kirton, Devon.
I think the R4 prog 'More or Less' should be essential listening at GCSE level to help teach a modicum of critical thinking around data and it's usage/misrepresentation and the impacts thereof....
Gwylan
Veteran
- Location
- All at sea⛵
Because the higher the altitude, the lower the temperature at which water boils, and ergo the eggs would take longer to cook. Basic GCSE physics IIRC...
OK, some of the science I learned at school bored me to tears (never was interested in biology), but chemistry and physics were largely quite good fun.
And science is a sneaky devil anyway, as it underpins a lot of the techniques and understanding of cooking. Like why a bread does (or doesn't) rise, that a recipe for a cake using baking powder is essentially a chemical formula in the form of ingredients. It's why you need to be careful when making mayonnaise (emulsions), and why putting raw flour in a sauce won't thicken it, but if you cook it out first when making a roux, it will. Science is knowing that if whisking egg whites, your bowl and whisk need to be degreased if you want to maximize the end volume, and that if you seal your preserves when still very hot, it will make them keep for a very long time thanks to the vacuum produced inside the jar as the contents cool. And it's also understanding why a properly-cooked steak tastes so good aka the Maillard reaction...
I'm sure science deniers do like a properly-cooked meal... Oh, if only they knew
Tea is always much worse at altitude.
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
We had regular debating lessons in English, which I guess amounts to the same thing. And certainly GCSE history lessons taught us to examine evidence critically, and to treat obvious propaganda with a good pinch of salt (we studied pre-war Nazi Germany and the Stalinist Soviet Union).
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
I live below sea level
To quote Babylon 5 again: do not know, so cannot say. Knowing, would say.
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
I'm not so sure. When I was taught what was then "Home Economics" in the mid-to-late 1980s, the theory behind the method and ingredients was first and foremost.
Yes, we made bread rolls, but first we learned about yeast (we also did that in our science lessons), and we learned about gluten and how it works. Of course, as a hobbyist bread maker, I've learned much more over the years about how different environmental factors and how different ingredients affect my bread.
byegad
Legendary Member
- Location
- NE England
When I worked, it's coming up 17 yrs ago, (So no memory problems here!) we got customers who 'knew' how things were going to work and when they didn't they got upset, nasty and plain rude.
No matter what you did for them, if it wasn't working exactly the way they expected then we, the company, were wrong and needed to change so we did things their way! I could explain that we didn't do it their way, or often couldn't do it their way, and this simply did not compute with them. Pointing out to them that over 100 000 people were getting the same service, paying the same as them and were not complaining meant that, to them, the 100 000 people were also wrong!
I even had one guy write to the owners of the business, based in Hong Kong (So it will have taken some doing getting their details!) to complain that I was being unhelpful. This despite, me, my immediate boss, her boss and several others in the company confirming I was right and the customer was wrong! I sometimes muse on this customer and think what an unhappy life he must have had falling out with one company after another because what he wrongly thought was what he had paid for should do something it didn't.
Matters have only got worse in the 17 yrs since I retired, now we have people who will believe any old garbage someone like Trump or Johnson comes out with even when the facts prove conclusively that their statement(s) couldn't possibly be true. Hands up if you truly believe Trump won the last presidential election, or BoJo has been forced out over parties he didn't attend, sanction and even organise.
I pity the poor scientists who have to explain the world as it really is to climate change deniers or creationists or flat earthers, although I believe the latter's 'Round the World Tour' is still going ahead. Let's hope they don't fall off the edge!
No matter what you did for them, if it wasn't working exactly the way they expected then we, the company, were wrong and needed to change so we did things their way! I could explain that we didn't do it their way, or often couldn't do it their way, and this simply did not compute with them. Pointing out to them that over 100 000 people were getting the same service, paying the same as them and were not complaining meant that, to them, the 100 000 people were also wrong!
I even had one guy write to the owners of the business, based in Hong Kong (So it will have taken some doing getting their details!) to complain that I was being unhelpful. This despite, me, my immediate boss, her boss and several others in the company confirming I was right and the customer was wrong! I sometimes muse on this customer and think what an unhappy life he must have had falling out with one company after another because what he wrongly thought was what he had paid for should do something it didn't.
Matters have only got worse in the 17 yrs since I retired, now we have people who will believe any old garbage someone like Trump or Johnson comes out with even when the facts prove conclusively that their statement(s) couldn't possibly be true. Hands up if you truly believe Trump won the last presidential election, or BoJo has been forced out over parties he didn't attend, sanction and even organise.
I pity the poor scientists who have to explain the world as it really is to climate change deniers or creationists or flat earthers, although I believe the latter's 'Round the World Tour' is still going ahead. Let's hope they don't fall off the edge!
mustang1
Legendary Member
- Location
- London, UK
You won't believe this. One of my friends was telling me that those airplanes, pointing at the sky at planes, are coming in to land and that's why they're dumping fuel.
Eh? How do you know they're dumping fuel, knowing full well he will mention the contrails. He went on to say those things coming out the back is the fuel being dumped coz the airplanes cannot land if they are too heavy! Credit to him that at least he knows the planes have a max landing weight!
