Red Lights? What Do They Mean

[spen666]

Using your logic then they need to get rid of the green man + bike or green man alone, because that isn't a signal to cross either.

Just get rid of all traffic lights as no one obeys them anyway - spend the money on pay rises for MPs instead

 

[mjr]

Using your logic then they need to get rid of the green man + bike or green man alone, because that isn't a signal to cross either.

It is as much as any green light is. The meaning of green is consistent. The meaning of red is inconsistent.

 

[slow horse]

I'm not particulary fussed about cyclists jumping red lights
View attachment 748662
I assume the stats aren't much different between 2014 and 2024, it'd be interesting to see them. Cyclists are allowed to go through certain red lights in Paris.

I can walk past a red light on the carriageway with my bike and it's legal, yet if I cycle past it at walking pace it's illegal. The powers that be trust me to cycle on a single track country lane with tall hedges and blind corners, but don't trust me to judge for myself what junctions are safe to cross in a city centre at 2AM with good sightlines and empty roads. I don't think traffic lights would exist at all if motor vehicles didn't exist. I think traffic engineers and legislators in this country often have a habit of treating bicycles like motor vehicles without actually looking at the stats of how little harm they cause. Certainly a few specific politicians like to regularly make a big stink about "dangerous cyclists" while seemingly completely ignoring the harm caused by dangerous drivers.

Funny world we live in.

No argument of course that motorists cause almost all the mayhem and destruction. Alas, whenever I'm cycling in a city, the road users who provide the most close calls are... cyclists ignoring red lights. There's enough to have to pay attention to without adding that to the mix. Lights add a welcome bit of predictability.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

No argument of course that motorists cause almost all the mayhem and destruction. Alas, whenever I'm cycling in a city, the road users who provide the most close calls are... cyclists ignoring red lights. There's enough to have to pay attention to without adding that to the mix. Lights add a welcome bit of predictability.

Yes - you can;t just give stats on who is actually killed/injured by cyclist directly

you also have to include people and incidents where that type of road user causes something
such as someone braking suddenly due to a cyclist going through a red light at speed and teh car behind rear ending them
Legally - the second car was clearly too close or not paying attention - or similar
but it was still caused by the cyclist

same would apply to pedestrians

but you can;t do that because the stats are not available - and I can;t see how they could accurately be collected easily

so we are normally left with media reports - often from place like the Daily Fail when it is short of news

 

[silva]

In recent years they made changes to traffic lights at some crosspoints I pass, that is, always red, you have to push a button everytime, a pain in the !ss when riding a fixie and in winter when wearing gloves. I never pushed these. I stop 5-10 metres (to have a pedal at front to restart) earlier so that I see when it's green for cars, and when so, I let turning ones pass, then I cross over brutally through the red light.

 

[classic33]

It is as much as any green light is. The meaning of green is consistent. The meaning of red is inconsistent.

Traffic lights predate motor vehicles.
And the meaning of a red light has been the same since they were introduced, STOP.

Apply any inconsistent meaning you want.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

I think the meaning is consistent in similar circumstances

Round red lights on a road facing traffic - stop
red picture of a pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing - advised to stop
because there is nothing in the law that can tell a pedestrian that they can;t walk somewhere except for permanent restrictions such as walls and stuff
The ones with walkers and bike (are they called Toucans??) are a bit in-between - but in the context they are clear

IMO

 

[mjr]

I think the meaning is consistent in similar circumstances

Round red lights on a road facing traffic - stop
red picture of a pedestrian on a pedestrian crossing - advised to stop
because there is nothing in the law that can tell a pedestrian that they can;t walk somewhere except for permanent restrictions such as walls and stuff
The ones with walkers and bike (are they called Toucans??) are a bit in-between - but in the context they are clear

The Toucan ones (and their Puffin equivalent) are not in-between in law: they're exactly the same as for pedestrians, advisory only. This is the inconsistency, weakening the red=stop meaning which some people passionately but mistakenly believe, thereby causing conflict with people who know the law.

 

[Dogtrousers]

The Toucan ones (and their Puffin equivalent) are not in-between in law: they're exactly the same as for pedestrians, advisory only.

This wins the Cyclechat prize for legal info that is obscure and practically useless, yet fascinating in a weird way. It narrowly pips the internationally recognised protocol for measuring the rated power of an electric motor for the award.

 

[matticus]

This wins the Cyclechat prize for legal info that is obscure and practically useless, yet fascinating in a weird way.

Don't say that to a Toucan

 

[classic33]

The Toucan ones (and their Puffin equivalent) are not in-between in law: they're exactly the same as for pedestrians, advisory only. This is the inconsistency, weakening the red=stop meaning which some people passionately but mistakenly believe, thereby causing conflict with people who know the law.

"The signals for pedestrians are located above the push button and are known as ‘near-side signals’. They can be seen when pedestrians are facing oncoming traffic. If the green walking figure is showing, you may cross the road, but take care in doing so. If the red standing figure is showing, press the push button and wait for the green figure to show. Unlike in older crossings, the green figure does not flash before the signals change back to red. If the red figure comes on when you are about to cross, press the push button and do not cross. Traffic will still be held on red for those pedestrians who are already crossing the road when the red figure comes on."

Taken from
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...cle-and-equestrian-crossings#puffin-crossings

I did check the legal situation before replying, not having made any pretence at saying "I know the law". You wish to say that, fine. Just don't mislead people into thinking that you "know the law" any better than anyone else.
"Press and wait for the green figure to show, another way of saying stop?

 

[Boopop]

I regularly attend iBike London supported Kidical Mass rides in London supporting them as a marshal. The middle of the mass passes through red lights, after we, as marshalls, have corked junctions. I help facilitate children cycling safely with their friends on occasional Saturdays. Technically illegal. On the other hand we've had Will Normal (London Walking and Cycling comissioner) give us a speech at the start of last year's kidical mass ride, knowing full well how we operate such rides.

I had some woman at a speed dating event a few weeks ago heavily imply that Kidical Mass was unethical (and thus so was I) because it breaks the law. I think it's unethical to build a world in which children can't get around safely by bicycle for the benefit of drivers

 

[gbb]

It's epidemic at many levels...
A1M sliproads, cars will rocket over the solid white lines so they can get onto the carriage quicker, saw that all the time.
Bus routes locally are used as rat runs frequently by the same people.
Red lights, guaranteed to get at least 3, often three cars go through.
Illegal bikes and scooters are so common out there now, I think a lot of people dont really registered their presence anymore.
It just goes on and on, its a free for all out there.

 

[Dogtrousers]

It's epidemic at many levels...
A1M sliproads, cars will rocket over the solid white lines so they can get onto the carriage quicker, saw that all the time.
Bus routes locally are used as rat runs frequently by the same people.
Red lights, guaranteed to get at least 3, often three cars go through.
Illegal bikes and scooters are so common out there now, I think a lot of people dont really registered their presence anymore.
It just goes on and on, its a free for all out there.

Not to mention bloody cyclists running red lights.

Unfortunately bloody-cyclists-red-light-jumpers is the commonest meme yet carries one of the lowest risks.

 

[matticus]

I regularly attend iBike London supported Kidical Mass rides in London supporting them as a marshal. The middle of the mass passes through red lights, after we, as marshalls, have corked junctions. I help facilitate children cycling safely with their friends on occasional Saturdays. Technically illegal. On the other hand we've had Will Normal (London Walking and Cycling comissioner) give us a speech at the start of last year's kidical mass ride, knowing full well how we operate such rides.

I had some woman at a speed dating event a few weeks ago heavily imply that Kidical Mass was unenthical (and thus so was I) because it breaks the law. I think it's unethical to build a world in which children can't get around safely by bicycle for the benefit of drivers

You're pretty much a terrorist.

;-)