twobiker
New Member
- Location
- South Hams Devon
Red Light Jumping
- Thread starter apollo179
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Reading the article it is difficult to pin down a country that has actualy prohibited it.
That's probably because it doesn't stay prohibited for long; if enough people disregard the laws they get repealed because there is no public interest in criminalising large numbers of otherwise law abiding people.
twobiker
New Member
- Location
- South Hams Devon
Mad at urage
New Member
- Location
- Just N of Cardiff
Collected the valid reasons (well, as many as I could before I got too bored):
Because the RLJing does cause offence, we know this to be a fact. It is pretty much the first observation made about cyclists in any given situation. The short term advantage which you can gain from the practice is outweighed by the greater dis-benefit.
The whole reason for the legal system is that the judgement of individuals will always, at some point, run contrary to what is best for the population as a whole.
Seeing a cyclist rljing could alarm some people, cause them to re-evaluate the current risks to themselves. It could perhaps p*** off the car drivers who are not allowed to drive through red lights whatever the circumstances.
RLJers will annoy some people in cars. Those drivers could think of other cyclists in the same way and possibly not think too much about their safety than they would have done.
Junctions are very rarely deserted during the day. This includes junctions where there are pedestrians and other road users on conflicting paths.
In a busy city environment it would be dangerous and possibly offensive to people trying to cross the road etc
Because choosing where it is safe is a matter of personal judgement - for example a guy this morning thought it was safe to go through a pelican crossing whilst there was a large crowd of people using it, weaving in and out of the pedestrians, which included small children.
You also can't guarantee that other road users aren't going to do something daft either (pedestrians dashing out on flashing amber, cars coming out from a crossroads as the lights change &c &c.
If you were turning left at a traffic light junction you could just push the bike round the corner and then just carry on with the flow of traffic
No one should break the law just because it is an inconvenience,
Loosen regulations like this and you'd actually encourage RLJing in situations where it isn't safe. Greater chance of accidents = greater chance of injury.
"it's unpredictable" and "it's rude/discourteous/scary"
Most of the cyclists who do it, DON'T do it safely, so we should not encourage (still less join in) their types of actions.
It makes traversing a junction safely, unpredictable - because you never know if someone else is going to rlj.
Selfish, self-centred tw@t or :troll: ?
Because the RLJing does cause offence, we know this to be a fact. It is pretty much the first observation made about cyclists in any given situation. The short term advantage which you can gain from the practice is outweighed by the greater dis-benefit.
The whole reason for the legal system is that the judgement of individuals will always, at some point, run contrary to what is best for the population as a whole.
Seeing a cyclist rljing could alarm some people, cause them to re-evaluate the current risks to themselves. It could perhaps p*** off the car drivers who are not allowed to drive through red lights whatever the circumstances.
RLJers will annoy some people in cars. Those drivers could think of other cyclists in the same way and possibly not think too much about their safety than they would have done.
Junctions are very rarely deserted during the day. This includes junctions where there are pedestrians and other road users on conflicting paths.
In a busy city environment it would be dangerous and possibly offensive to people trying to cross the road etc
Because choosing where it is safe is a matter of personal judgement - for example a guy this morning thought it was safe to go through a pelican crossing whilst there was a large crowd of people using it, weaving in and out of the pedestrians, which included small children.
You also can't guarantee that other road users aren't going to do something daft either (pedestrians dashing out on flashing amber, cars coming out from a crossroads as the lights change &c &c.
If you were turning left at a traffic light junction you could just push the bike round the corner and then just carry on with the flow of traffic
No one should break the law just because it is an inconvenience,
Loosen regulations like this and you'd actually encourage RLJing in situations where it isn't safe. Greater chance of accidents = greater chance of injury.
"it's unpredictable" and "it's rude/discourteous/scary"
Most of the cyclists who do it, DON'T do it safely, so we should not encourage (still less join in) their types of actions.
It makes traversing a junction safely, unpredictable - because you never know if someone else is going to rlj.
Selfish, self-centred tw@t or :troll: ?
OP
OP
apollo179
Well-Known Member
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Now there is a good question.
pepecat
Well-Known Member
- Location
- Dodging the Buzes in Brum
Maybe it's just me, but i don't get why people think it's ok TO rlj, whether on a bike, in a car, whatever. The law is (as far as I know), that if the light's red, you stop. I've been at junctions several times where cyclists have rlj'd and narrowly missed being hit by cars coming across the juntion. And, when i'm out cycling OR driving and see a cyclist jump a red light, it winds me up and makes me want to shout 'Oi, red light' at them. No wonder some people hate cyclists......
Again, it's probably me, but if it is 1 or 2am and i'm driving and the light's red, I'll stop. Possibly i wouldn't if i were cycling at this time of the night, but i've never done it, so i don't know.
Again, it's probably me, but if it is 1 or 2am and i'm driving and the light's red, I'll stop. Possibly i wouldn't if i were cycling at this time of the night, but i've never done it, so i don't know.
What a shame you were unable to keep things objective without getting personal.
Very little of what you have written above stands up to scrutiny; most of it seems to revolve around not annoying the car drivers. If you think that every cyclist waiting at red lights would make drivers welcome cyclists on the road then you are very naive indeed
If you are interested in some constructive criticism, your assessment fails to take account of 3 main factors.
1, To reiterate an earlier point, many (the majority?) of traffic light controlled junctions exist to control the congestion caused by motor traffic. As cyclists occupy the grey area between a motor vehicles and pedestrians and do not cause congestion, many (most?) cyclists feel able to treat certain traffic laws as discretionary.
2, The assertion that RLJ'ing by cyclists is inherently dangerous is simply not backed up in the accident statistics.
3, As I have tried to show with earlier posts, absolute obedience to laws is not always smart or productive.
Speaking for myself, there are many, many situations where stopping for a red light would not benefit anyone at all, so I don't. You may not agree, that's fine, but if you are not even prepared to consider the reasoning then i'm afraid it comes down to extreme narrow mindedness.
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
martint235
Dog on a bike
- Location
- Welling
But if we obey all laws we are apparently fascists!
Well I'd rather be a fascist than allow some of the people I meet on a daily basis to pick and choose which laws they'd like to obey!
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Amen to that!
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
1526044 said:
So is it reasonable that as I am poor I can shoplift?
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