Red Light Jumping

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apollo179

apollo179

Well-Known Member
1525988 said:
I thought that that was in some earlier, more innocent existence before the scales were shed from his/her eyes.
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Correct before i joined this forum and began mixing with the cycling intelligentsia.
 
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Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Location
Cwmbach, South Wales
apollo179 said:
As Norm has pointed out nobody has argued that the law should be changed because some people are selfish.
It has been suggested that traffic control strategy might be reviewed where appropriate for the common good.
I would reiterate that the rights and wrongs of stopping at red lights is not the issue . It is universally agreed that stopping at red lights is right and correct.
The question is (slightly edited) - Beyond the simple legal fact "its against the law therefore its wrong" does anyone have a compelling arguement why rljing is wrong in circumstances where it is safe to cyclist and others and causes no apparent harm."
The sub plot being that in circumstances where there is not harm it raises the question - "is there scope for review of traffic control measures for the common good.
We have had some interesting reasons and i suspect everyone is chewing them over as i am.
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Look at it from the perspective of a driver. The light controlled junction appears safe, there is a cyclist in front, the driver assumes the cyclist will go through the lights. The cyclist stops, the car crashes into the cyclist. Who is to blame and more importantly who is hurt?
 
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Raa

Active Member
Wankelschrauben said:
Yeah, why wouldn't you?

The law is the law, not everyone will agree with the law but it doesn't mean they will actively break it.

RLJ'ing is a seriously dangerous offence, many believe it is a victimless crime. Other victimless crimes include speeding, and sexually assaulting the unconcious. Often these are not victimless crimes, the victims of such crimes often paying in many ways for the selfish actions of another.
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"RLJ'ing is a seriously dangerous offence"


Well frankly that's complete and utter B.S! It must happen litterally hundreds of thousands of times a day without incident. What you seem to be in denial of, is the fact that most traffic lights were installed to control the congestion caused by motor vehicles. As bicycles don't really contribute its hardly crime of the century to treat them with a bit of discretion is it?

 
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Raa

Active Member
Angelfishsolo said:
What is worrying is that you feel it OK to pick and choose which laws to obey. Say for example we met and I decided I didn't like you and shot you. I have chosen to break the law as you were annoying me and by removing you my life was better. Is that a valid reason?
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Obedience to unfair regressive laws is one step on the road to fascism!
 
N

Norm

Guest
Angelfishsolo said:
Look at it from the perspective of a driver. The light controlled junction appears safe, there is a cyclist in front, the driver assumes the cyclist will go through the lights. The cyclist stops, the car crashes into the cyclist. Who is to blame and more importantly who is hurt?
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This is not the experience in those countries where more progressive thinking of traffic light legislation and use has been implemented.
 
twobiker

twobiker

New Member
Location
South Hams Devon
Raa said:
You can read about the car-centric anti bike laws here (can't believe anyone would advocate obedience to this sort of fascism!)

As for ignoring your 'valid' reasons; obviously I don't regard them as being all that valid.

If the law was changed to stop filtering then so be it, fascism is seen by some as a way to rebuild society after it has degraded,perhaps these countries feel they need to do something different and changing the law was their response. we are not all urban revolutionaries.
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Raa

Active Member
Well, all I can say, is that it my sincere hope that in those countries unfortunate enough to have such regressive legislation, there are enough people prepared to treat the regressive laws to the contempt they deserve!
 
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Wankelschrauben

Guest
Raa said:
"RLJ'ing is a seriously dangerous offence"


Well frankly that's complete and utter B.S! It must happen litterally hundreds of thousands of times a day without incident. What you seem to be in denial of, is the fact that most traffic lights were installed to control the congestion caused by motor vehicles. As bicycles don't really contribute its hardly crime of the century to treat them with a bit of discretion is it?
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Really? So for all the incidents that have occured involving RLJ'ing, they're all fine because normally it occurs without incident.
 
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Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Location
Cwmbach, South Wales
Norm said:
This is not the experience in those countries where more progressive thinking of traffic light legislation and use has been implemented.
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Norm, comparing countries is like comparing apples and oranges. India has a very "interesting" approach to driving. many would call it progressive. Would you want to see Indian style driving and driving tests over here?
 
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crisscross

Senior Member
I've always thought of rlj's as the scourge of the cycling community.

Their selfishness and inability to wait for a light to change, not to mention law breaking probably winds up ( correctly IMO) motorists and pedestrians more than anything else pedallers do.

It's against the law so why should you even think about doing i?
 
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