Red light jumping. Ok or not ?

[Arch]

Agreed arch you can allways find extremes of any kind on behaviour that can be extrapolated to cast a cloud over the entirety.
For example dodgy charities set up for their own benefit discredit charities as a whole.
There are rljers who are indefensible - there are a majority of rljers who rlj in as responsible a way as possible.

Agreed, but....

Those who rlj 'responsibly' may be doing it with a view to their own safety. The thing is, it gets seen and adds fuel to the fire of those determined to see all cyclists as louts. Of course, that shows that the ranters have limited imagination, but it doesn't help the rest of us who are just getting on and obeying the rules - so it's pretty selfish. Anyway, why should they choose which laws to obey and which to follow?

 

[Glover Fan]

Agreed, but....

Those who rlj 'responsibly' may be doing it with a view to their own safety. The thing is, it gets seen and adds fuel to the fire of those determined to see all cyclists as louts. Of course, that shows that the ranters have limited imagination, but it doesn't help the rest of us who are just getting on and obeying the rules - so it's pretty selfish. Anyway, why should they choose which laws to obey and which to follow?

Same goes for all road users. I get far more irate by 90% of drivers who do not indicate at all times than a chav on a BSO who goes through a red light. What is more dangerous to the general public? A cyclist is only ever likely to hurt himself.

Well, physically, the mental damage to someone who runs someone over must be pretty horrific as well.

 

[apollo179]

Agreed, but....

Those who rlj 'responsibly' may be doing it with a view to their own safety. The thing is, it gets seen and adds fuel to the fire of those determined to see all cyclists as louts. Of course, that shows that the ranters have limited imagination, but it doesn't help the rest of us who are just getting on and obeying the rules - so it's pretty selfish. Anyway, why should they choose which laws to obey and which to follow?

I cant understand why anyone would have a problem with responsible rljing. When i was driving i certainly didnt have a problem with cyclists rljing in a safe and courteous way.
I can understand the disapproval over reckless rljing the same as i would over any reckless behaviour but as i said before we should all have the sense not to judge the majority by the actions of just a few.
The "its the law so its right" is an easy arguement for you to make and there has been extensive debate surrounding the law , the lack of enforcement and the gray areas that result. Numerous examples i wont bore you with.

 

[lukesdad]

If the forum is as described "responsible cyclists " the poll results are enlightening. Maybe that 51% in the original thread isn t that far off the mark ?

 

[Glow worm]

I cant understand why anyone would have a problem with responsible rljing. When i was driving i certainly didnt have a problem with cyclists rljing in a safe and courteous way.

It's all about perception. You might percieve that your RLJ is safe and courteuous, sadly the miffed driver who sees it and then undertakes a recklessly close pass on the next cyclist he sees (ie non RLJing me) as a punishment pass may not see it the same way.

I'm fed up of taking the flack off drivers for the poor cycling standards of others and disregard of those people for their fellow cyclists well being. Just stop at red, have a breather and don't be a muppet.

 

[apollo179]

If the forum is as described "responsible cyclists " the poll results are enlightening. Maybe that 51% in the original thread isn t that far off the mark ?

 

[peppyuk]

I expect the same respect from other road uses wether I'm on my bike or driving my car, so I play my the same rules on my bike as I would driving my car and I don't jump red lights in my car.

 

[Ian 74]

It all seems to have gotten a little heavy on this thread.

I voted sometimes, because nothing in life is black and white, except zebras.


most of the lights I see are on country lanes and are temporary in nature. Some of them don't register the fact that I am there so I check to see nothing is coming and "jump it" its either that or wait an indefinite time for a car to come and trigger the sensor.

We should play by the rules of the road in the towns etc, for our safety and the safety of others, every time a cyclist jumps a red in a town we are just adding to the bad public perception of cyclists. Save the speed and the races against the garmin for the country side and slow down in town (a little bit anyway).

 

[rowan 46]

Agreed, but....

Those who rlj 'responsibly' may be doing it with a view to their own safety. The thing is, it gets seen and adds fuel to the fire of those determined to see all cyclists as louts. Of course, that shows that the ranters have limited imagination, but it doesn't help the rest of us who are just getting on and obeying the rules - so it's pretty selfish. Anyway, why should they choose which laws to obey and which to follow?

I don't hold with every cyclist is a representative of every other. most people don't have good reasons for their prejudices only excuses if every cyclist was an angel those drivers with prejudice would still hate cyclists. If I only read this forum and didn't cycle I could easily form the impression that all motorists are out to get us. On the road however I find that not to be the case. I often come into cases of inattention or drivers who are a little inconsiderate but its unusual for drivers to be hostile on the road. There's a good safety case for cyclists going early when making a left turn at a junction especially if there are lorries nearby. there was an incident recently on the forum where a cyclist making a perfectly legal right turn was nearly taken out by a car doing a careless overtake so I don't condemn those cyclists who feel they are taking responsibility for their own safety. Although the law says cyclists have rights to the roads custom and practice on the roads is making it increasingly frightening for new cyclists which is why so many give up after a short time admittedly I only have this information from friends who have given up so its not scientific but they have no reason to lie. some new cyclists stick to pavements because they feel threatened by roads they don't feel having the law on their side protects them from a careless driver likewise some cyclists who rlj claim its safer in some circumstances. I agree some cyclists are selfish I'm one I sometimes go through empty pelican crossings at night but in the scheme of things its not the worst thing you could do. "it's the law" isn't a good argument I feel because implicit in that statement is that all laws are good I don't think they are I think there are some bad laws about.

 

[apollo179]

It's all about perception. You might percieve that your RLJ is safe and courteuous, sadly the miffed driver who sees it and then undertakes a recklessly close pass on the next cyclist he sees (ie non RLJing me) as a punishment pass may not see it the same way.

I'm fed up of taking the flack off drivers for the poor cycling standards of others and disregard of those people for their fellow cyclists well being. Just stop at red, have a breather and don't be a muppet.

A driver who sees a cyclist rlj and goes out on a vendetta to drive so as to endanger every cyclist he sees is an individual who it is in reality going to be difficult to legislate for.
Such an individual is likely to get equally angry when he gets stuck behind a cyclist or any similar circumstance.
Such motorists are innaccountable. If you are intent on accomodating such motorists your only option is to stay home and let them have the road to themselves.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I cant see how society benefits from marginalising and criminalising people in this way.

How can you see this as marginalisation? If it were ok for bikes worth >£1.5k to jump jump lights but not ok for bikes worth less than that then it would cause marginalisation. If you believe bikes should be allowed to do this then why not motorbikes?

 

[apollo179]

I see it as marginalisation because it is - if you have a counter arguement then id like to hear it (famous last words)
Its not a money issue.
Its about the criminalisation of a sizeable otherwise law abiding segment of the population over a trivial matter.
It behoves society to attend to these issues rather than just blindly condemning and criminalising the offenders.
.

 

[400bhp]

Angelfishsolo: I'm not sure why you are persuing this point.

The law is only one part of what makes something 'right' or 'wrong'. It is not absolute. Homosexuality was illegal until relatively recently, there are plenty things that are legal which I would consider wrong.

The law only defines what is legal and what is illegal. It does not define what is right and wrong. It is not absolute. Get it?

You have just gone up in my estimation.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

I see it as marginalisation because it is - if you have a counter arguement then id like to hear it
.

Well with logic like that how can one possibly argue. Oh I know. The rules are for all road users that way no one is marginalised.

 

[gaz]

The rules are for all road users that way no one is marginalised.

They aren't though.