Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Red light jumping. Ok or not ?
- Thread starter ian turner
- Start date
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gaz
Cycle Camera TV
- Location
- South Croydon
Not every rule applies to all road users. For example, speed limits only apply to motorised vehicles.
apollo179
Well-Known Member
The fact that the rules are for all road users does not necessarily mean that no-one is marginalised.
The fact that on the ground it results in a lot of cyclists , wittingly and unwittingly , breaking the law does result in a lot of cyclists being marginalised and criminalised. A lamentable situation in my opinion.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
Ah so cyclists are marginalised because they do not acquaint themselves with the required rules. If I entered a boxing comp and used karate am I being marginalised for being wrong. After all I have seen MMA fights.
apollo179
Well-Known Member
If we take a look at the poll so far it would indicate that around 30% of forum members are (presumably wittingly) marginalised by this law.
In the poulation as a whole it will be higher.
I have in another topic aired the idea that beyond the realms of this forum over 51% of cyclists dont even realise that rljing is illegal.
Whatever the figures a significantly large proportion of cyclists are breaking this law and thereby being criminalised and marginalised by it.
It behoves a dynamic society to be proactive regarding the laws that it lives by and review those that reveal themselves as equivocal.
The result may be staying with the staus quo where it is decided that the law is correct in principal but the powers that be decide not to enforce it. If that is the case then those of us who rlj in a safe responsible way will just have to reconcile ourselves as law breakers.
In the poulation as a whole it will be higher.
I have in another topic aired the idea that beyond the realms of this forum over 51% of cyclists dont even realise that rljing is illegal.
Whatever the figures a significantly large proportion of cyclists are breaking this law and thereby being criminalised and marginalised by it.
It behoves a dynamic society to be proactive regarding the laws that it lives by and review those that reveal themselves as equivocal.
The result may be staying with the staus quo where it is decided that the law is correct in principal but the powers that be decide not to enforce it. If that is the case then those of us who rlj in a safe responsible way will just have to reconcile ourselves as law breakers.
Angelfishsolo
A Velocipedian
- Location
- Cwmbach, South Wales
No you are talking about people who marginalise themselves through omission of action or ignorance. That is not the same as being marginalised.
chris grace
New Member
I've read this thread and have a couple of points to make.
Running a red light is illegal(not the same as going through a broken one or going through to prevent injury to yourself).We can't pick the laws we want to obey and ignore them knowing the cost.
A red light stops you because there is something coming the other way or it is not safe to proceed,why would you want to jump a red light knowing this?(again,not the same a a broken light or getting to safety.)
Running a red light is illegal(not the same as going through a broken one or going through to prevent injury to yourself).We can't pick the laws we want to obey and ignore them knowing the cost.
A red light stops you because there is something coming the other way or it is not safe to proceed,why would you want to jump a red light knowing this?(again,not the same a a broken light or getting to safety.)
lukesdad
Guest
Second part isn t strictly true though is it ? Traffic lights control traffic. Going through a red light can be safe, as can going through a green not be.
I think we are seeing a clear division between those who look for "justice" within the law and those that look for "compassion".
I selected "Sometimes" for RLJ because I have done it in the past. For example, when I was the only user on the road and the lights were red even though there was no traffic at all. Am I "wrong" for jumping that red light? One could say yes. The problem with this sort of absolutism is that it undoes everyone that engages in it.
The law does not exist to regulate morality; "wrong" and "right" should not really apply, for they truly are aspects of morality. Nevertheless, there is a feeling that the law is the extension of one's own morality, or of a collective morality. This is problematic, since people do not realise the extent to which our laws derive from Christian morality and Anglo-Saxon notions of community. When speaking in these terms, am I "right" to chastise someone for RLJing? In this context, what would that even signify?
It's tricky.
I selected "Sometimes" for RLJ because I have done it in the past. For example, when I was the only user on the road and the lights were red even though there was no traffic at all. Am I "wrong" for jumping that red light? One could say yes. The problem with this sort of absolutism is that it undoes everyone that engages in it.
The law does not exist to regulate morality; "wrong" and "right" should not really apply, for they truly are aspects of morality. Nevertheless, there is a feeling that the law is the extension of one's own morality, or of a collective morality. This is problematic, since people do not realise the extent to which our laws derive from Christian morality and Anglo-Saxon notions of community. When speaking in these terms, am I "right" to chastise someone for RLJing? In this context, what would that even signify?
It's tricky.
chris grace
New Member
It is strictly true.
Yes going through a red light CAN be safe but it's not legal for a reason.Generally going through a green light is unsafe when someone goes through the red light on the set when they shouldn't.
Why is it any more unsafe for the cyclist than for a pedestrian deciding to cross at the same time? Ones legal, ones not, the danger is the same (or probably less for the cyclist because they can cross quicker. Pedestrians do it all the time without annoying anyone much.
80% of the people on here don't obey the law on pedal reflectors at night so most of us are picking the laws we want to obey.
chris grace
New Member
I don't think either is safer but I think there are more pedestrians doing it more often so car drivers have become a bit blase about pedestrians.
chris grace
New Member
I'll rephrase it then.
We SHOULDN'T pick the laws we want to obey.
I suppose in an ideal world we'd all obey all the laws and be able to do away with the whole justice system,but it's not going to happen so we have to accept that if we do break a law ,then there's a chance we will be caught and punished.
I wonder which is worse in the eyes of the law.Someone deliberately lawbreaking or someone doing it through ignorance of the law.I know justice is alledgedly blind and ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law.
,but I wonder how blind the law is.