Red light jumping. Ok or not ?

Red light jumping is okay

  • Yes

    Votes: 7 3.7%
  • Sometimes

    Votes: 57 30.2%
  • No

    Votes: 112 59.3%
  • bring back hanging

    Votes: 13 6.9%

  • Total voters
    189
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apollo179

Well-Known Member
No you are talking about people who marginalise themselves through omission of action or ignorance. That is not the same as being marginalised.
Marginalise themselves or become marginalised the upshot is the same - a significantly large segment of otherwise honest socially responsible cyclists marginalised as law breakers.
Legally you may be correct.
But i dont think you are correct to condemn your fellow cyclists quite as peremptorily as you do.
 
I'll rephrase it then.

We SHOULDN'T pick the laws we want to obey.

But most of us do as demonstrated by pedal reflectors and anyone riding a bent at night.
 

Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Marginalise themselves or become marginalised the upshot is the same - a significantly large segment of otherwise honest socially responsible cyclists marginalised as law breakers.
Legally you may be correct.
But i dont think you are correct to condemn your fellow cyclists quite as peremptorily as you do.
As a bikeability instructor I feel I am correct in doing so.
 

briantrumpet

Legendary Member
Location
Devon & Die
If one wanted to muddy the waters even more, it is still currently illegal to rip CDs, even just for personal use. Although it is likely to change in the near future through the Digital Economy Act, this is a clear case of the law being completely out-of-step with common practice. What percentage of us consider that law to have been out-dated for a long time, and have 'broken the law'?

My own law breaking:

Ripping CDs (knowing that the current law is an ass)

Speeding (only marginally, knowing what the police-announced allowances are)

Lack of pedal reflectors (the law's an ass: if it's dark, I'm fully lighted)

Very occasional RLJ, on lights where there is no-one else around (and they are stupid lights that either don't register me, or turn against me late at night when there's no-one coming)

The law always needs interpeting, either by the police (did the person commit an offence?), by the CPS (is there a case to answer?) or by a judge (and possibly jury). In all the above instances of my 'law breaking', my judgement is that, somewhere along the line of interpreting the law, common sense would prevail, and I would not be penalised. That does not make the activity legal, but it reflects that there is an institutionalised way of blurring the the boundaries: whilst there appear to be clear legal boundaries, the whole legal process allows either tolerances or, in some cases, the complete disregarding of something that. legally, is clear-cut.

Without wishing to open a can of worms, for a strong example of how a clear-cut law and an extremely complex moral argument collides, one need look no further than the subject of 'mercy killing', such as when a partner assists in the death of a loved-one suffering from dreadful terminal illness: though the uninterpreted law doesn't recognise the term and doesn't allow for any such actions (as far as I understand it), the courts have repeatedly passed sentences which on the one hand uphold 'the law', but effectively exculpate the 'perpetrator'.
 

Glow worm

Legendary Member
Location
Near Newmarket
If you are intent on accomodating such motorists your only option is to stay home and let them have the road to themselves.

No - I've no interest in any motorist, but am simply intent on being safe, not breaking the law and therefore not pissing the rest of the world off in the process, including peds who are more at risk from RLJrs than anyone. I just don't see why saving myself a few seconds should take priority over everyone else on the road. Maybe if I was a smug, self obsessed, selfish bar sterward, I'd RLJ, but I'm not so I don't!
 

TheCharityShop

New Member
Rules are for FOOLS, live your life with gay abandon, disreguard petty laws made by fallable weak men in order to assert control over our free will

To hell with the law, so long as you are not hurting anyone, act with compassion and consideration for those around you and believe you are behaving in concert with nature and the universe, do not let manufactured arbitrary rules on personal freedom and liberty impede your way

This is my approach to this fleeting existence on this sphere suspended in infinity

No mortal flesh and bone bureaucrat filth will curtail my life and my place in this infinite uncomprehensible univers we find ourselves concious to appreciate

RULES ARE FOR FOOLS
 

Glow worm

Legendary Member
Location
Near Newmarket
Rules are for FOOLS, live your life with gay abandon, disreguard petty laws made by fallable weak men in order to assert control over our free will

To hell with the law, so long as you are not hurting anyone, act with compassion and consideration for those around you and believe you are behaving in concert with nature and the universe, do not let manufactured arbitrary rules on personal freedom and liberty impede your way

This is my approach to this fleeting existence on this sphere suspended in infinity

No mortal flesh and bone bureaucrat filth will curtail my life and my place in this infinite uncomprehensible univers we find ourselves concious to appreciate

RULES ARE FOR FOOLS

To be read in the style of........
 

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Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
What about as a compassionate human being and as a member of a global cycling brotherhood (sisterhood)? , all of whom have there own individual weaknesses and fallibilities.
Oh be serious. I have a vast amount of compassion to any one / thing who/that deserves it. That does not cover people who choose to ignore or remain ignorant of basic road law.
As I have saie before the I didn't know excuse doesn't cut it. It is one of the excuses used by illegal off road motorbikers. So why not find out first!
 

GrumpyGregry

Here for rides.
Ah sod it just tell everyone they only have to obey the laws they want to. After all it isn't illegal to ride/drive on the right is it?

If plod stop me for not having pedal reflectors on two of the fleet, almost certainly never going to happen, I won't plead ignorance. I won't try a smart arsed argument to show the law in an ass. I'll take what is coming to me.

RLJ'ing is illegal. RLJ'ing is unexpected, like suddenly deciding to ride/drive on the right. Unexpected behaviour in a shared road space is inconsiderate, selfish, uncivilised and anti-social. All of which adds up to a big heap of stupid. So there you have it...

RLJ'ing is stupid.




and stupid in a way that having no pedal reflectors ever can be.
 

Angelfishsolo

A Velocipedian
Ah sod it just tell everyone they only have to obey the laws they want to. After all it isn't illegal to ride/drive on the right is it?

If plod stop me for not having pedal reflectors on two of the fleet, almost certainly never going to happen, I won't plead ignorance. I won't try a smart arsed argument to show the law in an ass. I'll take what is coming to me.

RLJ'ing is illegal. RLJ'ing is unexpected, like suddenly deciding to ride/drive on the right. Unexpected behaviour in a shared road space is inconsiderate, selfish, uncivilised and anti-social. All of which adds up to a big heap of stupid. So there you have it...

RLJ'ing is stupid.




and stupid in a way that having no pedal reflectors ever can be.
Well said that man! :thumbsup:
 

Hip Priest

Veteran
I'd never RLJ. The roads only work because everyone, by-and-large, agrees to a certain set of rules. Without them, it'd be bedlam. And I know there are situations where it's 'safe' to RLJ, but that's true for cars as well. I bet none of us ever RLJs in a car.
 
Its fascinating in the absence of any clear and consistent reason to watch people rationalising it away with unclear or inconsistent reasons.
 
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