Off'ed...... by a boat !

[Dave Davenport]

Glad you're didn't come off any worse pete, get well soon.

I can understand you're reluctance to add to the claim culture but think you'll probably have to go that way to get any recompense. I was knocked off at Iply cross roads a few years ago, bike was a write off but I got away with soft tissue damage. The driver admitted to driving without due care and did an awareness course. I gave him the option of paying me £700 for a new bike but he declined so I put it with a firm advertising in the comic. Eventually got the bike paid for and £1400 for injuries (they seemed quite surprised that I didn't try to exagerate them). The whole thing cost his insurers about £6k when if they'd offered be a grand at the beggining I'd have said yes.

 

[PK99]

Pete - my strong advice to you is to keep any claim open-ended until you are completely satisfied that you are not going to suffer any lasting effects, and that you have the bike (particularly the frame) given a once-over by a bike shop.

+1

It was weeks later as my back eased that my knee injury revealed itself.

Smidsy last April. CTC assisted claim paid in full in December - new bike, bupa refunded, £5,350 cash
Injuries:
strained thumb
cracked ribs
ricked back
cruciate knee ligamant strain.

Insurance company accepted letter from my LBS that bike was "beyond economic repair" with quote for parts and labour

 

[Camgreen]

I bet as soon as he sees that total he will change his tune and before you know it the legal route will be the only option.

For what's worth the same thought went through my mind; chances are that the Jag driver probably has no clue as to the true potential cost (and let's be honest on closer inspection it might prove to be worse than you thought) and thinks they'll just be handing over a few pound notes to repair a few scratches and do a bit of straightening. Once they've seen the true cost of their negligence, at best they'll baulk at the size of the bill and try and negotiate; at worst deny all culpability.

 

[sunnyjim]

If he has admitted liability why not just put it through his insurance?

Given the damage to the cranks, surely the frame will be damaged as well?

I suspect if you put through his insurance they will not mess about, and you will find a new bike coming your way.

With regards personal injury, you have been quite badly injured, and although you do not want to go to the ambulance chasers, you deserve compensation for the pain, and no doubt the time off work etc, I suspect the personal compensation will be in excess of £5,000? does that not help to change your mind?

Absolutely- if you haven't already got it, ask for his insurance details - for only £1000 or so, they'll probably pay up without argument. If he wants to talk about a private cash settlement, let him open the negotiation. (he will probably be braking the rules of his insurance policy if he does, and is in a weak position).

Even when driving carefully & giving lots of clearance, when towing something with a long nose like a boat trailer and passing other vehicles slowly, it's always necessary to watch for people - cars or bikes - drifting into the line of the trailer wheels or overhang of the hull after the tow vehicle has passed with an apparently very wide margin. This clearly wasn't the problem in your case, but you want to make sure this argument couldn't be used as an excuse.

 

[Night Train]

I would also add not to close the claim at the amounts and parts you have suggested.
If in a few weeks you have the bike inspected and find there is more damage then you will need to be able to add that to the bill, also any personal injury too.
If he is still prepared to pay it all then fair enough but I can't see that happening as many people don't realise the cost of parts and labour on 'such a simple thing' as a bike.

 

[Bman]

I think he might be a surprised by the total amount too...

The question is, do scratches on a rear mech really justify replacement ? and similar for the rest of it?

OTH - is he prepared to risk me getting a solicitor involved... with possible claim for personal injury, pain & suffering, loss of earnings - and anything else they can think up so as to maximise their cut. If they really pile it on he'd have to get his insurers involved and face losing his no-claims discount, and that, I suspect, could be a lot more than £457 per year for a Jag?

Yes, you shouldnt be worse off because of his actions. Thats what his insurance is for.

As for your email, if you send that and he accepts, that is it. Settled. If you find that you have, for instance re-occuring back problems in later life caused by this, you have no recourse. You have already settled.

If I was in constant pain and not even able to laugh through some motons actions, I would take him/her to the cleaners.

Photos and day-to-day logs of your injuries would help

Speak to some experts and get well soon!

 

[exbfb]

Pete

I admire your gentlemanly conduct and how you have worded your communication.

I take my hat off to you.


However.

It's early days and you really have had quite an accident.

This must go through his insurance as a claim.
If it doesn't, he's paid you off cheaply for £500...

He needs to learn the error of his ways, for your sake and every other cyclist out there.

A nicely inflated insurance premium for the next five years would help here.

 

[Arch]

I'd agree with everyone who says don't settle now.

I also wouldn't put this bit, if you did decide to contact him:

I should tell you that I have contacted the CTC’s accident helpline, but since that is now merely a front for a “Claims Management” firm of solicitors, and I really do not like the litigation culture that seems to be growing in this country, I would be quite happy to deal with this matter privately, and ask them to close the case on receipt of your cheque for the above amount.

To me, that reads as you being a weak touch, with morals. You may well be dealing with someone with no morals, and they will use any weakness they can find to do you out of any recompense. He won't care who the CTC are, or what their helpline is. You no doubt want to appear maganimous, but that only works when you're dealing with someone who has similar principles. Sorting it out 'man to man' is alright if you're equal weights, but this guy may have no qualms at all about employing a solicitor to do you out of even a penny.

Take him to the cleaners. The CTC solicitors aren't some fly-by-night outfit, and will do what's right for you.

 

[PpPete]

I have now had a conversation with RJ&W (CTC's solicitor) and am seriously considering my options...

One possibility is modify my letter to him as follows:

Dear MrXXXXX
You asked me to let you know if there was any damage to my bike as a result of the above incident. As I suspected, my local bike shop are very busy and unable to check my bike for, or repair any damage for the next few weeks. In the interim I have therefore examined it closely myself, and have provided on the sheet attached details of the repairs and parts that I consider are required, with costs, and showing such discounts as I can obtain through my membership of the CTC (Cyclist’s Touring Club). [attached is same list as on earlier draft] I am prepared to install these parts in my own time, and at my own liability. In addition to the discounts available through the CTC I also get free legal representation through them, and have had exploratory discussions with their solicitors who advise that:

a) since injury is involved I should report the accident to the Police.


b) they will require a detailed professional examination of the bike – she told me “off the record” that with damage as extensive as I’ve detailed on the attached she would not be surprised if it was considered to be a write-off and they would then claim for a new bike of equivalent quality.

c) they will require an independent medical examination of my injuries, and that however minor they always claim for at least £1000 for physical injury, over and above any other costs, since below that limit the matter would be handled by the Small Claims Court and they would not then be able to recover their costs from your insurers.

d) they would also claim for any reasonable travel and other out of pocket expenses incurred until such time as the claim is finally settled and the bike repaired – a timescale which would depend in the first instance on the degree of cooperation they receive from your insurers, but likely to be several weeks or months.

All their costs would also be recovered from your insurers.

I will be entirely frank with you and tell you that I really would prefer, physical recovery permitting, to be back riding again much sooner than that. I also really do not like the litigation culture that seems to be growing in this country. I would therefore be quite happy to deal with this matter privately, and advise the solicitors that I am not pursuing the case, if you are prepared to accept my attached estimate and offer a reasonable additional sum by way of compensation for injury and inconvenience.

The only other thing that I would ask, is that you undertake to consider very carefully when you overtake cyclists in future, and recall that Rule 163 of the Highway Code says:

Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so.

· You should not get too close to the vehicle you intend to overtake

· Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car”.


What say you all ?

 

[400bhp]

Pete, I can understand the logic in what you are doing but I think you are wasting your time mate.

For one, he would be ill advised to accept your "offer" as my understanding is there is nothing to stop you going back later for more.

Just go down the insurance route.he has an obligation to inform his insurance company of the accident regardless. Will he really do this if settled without their involvement? I don't want to be subsiding such drivers when I take out insurance.

 

[MacB]

Pete, it's your judgement call and you've at least met the guy, my cynical side says you're wasting your time and potentially giving yourself hassle you don't need. But you've got to live with yourself, not us, so if you wouldn't be happy without at least making an offer then go for it. The letter is good and hits the right note, though the final admonishment is unlikely to be well received no matter how well intentioned.

 

[exbfb]

I agree with the final point made by MacB.

You're doing very well until the last section regarding the advice regarding the highway code.

I suspect that this might just rub him up the wrong way.


Quite honestly, I wouldn't be putting in so much effort on behalf of someone who, but for the grace of God, nearly killed you.
You're trying way too hard to be the good guy.

It sounds like you aren't looking for compensation out of proportion to your losses.

Fine, the insurance company will make a lowball offer as an opening gambit anyway.

At that point, you have the opportunity to acccept if you consider it to be enough.

Your own solicitors will advise you accordingly and certainly much better than we perhaps might be able to.

 

[sunnyjim]

I have now had a conversation with RJ&W (CTC's solicitor) and am seriously considering my options...

One possibility is modify my letter to him as follows:

Dear MrXXXXX
ssior...............................".


What say you all ?

I don't know what communication you may already have had, but if I were in the erring boat-towers position, I'd be asking myself why you don't seem to want this to go through your respective insurance companies like any other road incident. This isn't 'compensation culture' it's a simple case of one party causing injury & damage through incompetence and lack of attention. That is what insurance is for.

If you just want a reasonable sum for bike repair/replacement (but not 'compensation' and forfeiting any further claim) without going through insurance, it might be better to say it outright & ask for £x000 for a new bike - well defined number and easily agreed as the actual cost in the shops. You don't have to justify anything in detail. Otherwise, a polite note saying you thank him for the offer of a quick settlement but you'd rather let the professionals handle it would be in order.

I have empathy (but not sympathy) with the culprit, as a regular, although hopefully competent & considerate, boat-tower (including sometime with a Jag..) in his position I would almost certainly want you to deal with my insurance company, and resolve to be a better driver in future. A private settlement involves trust on both sides - the insurance company would not be happy if they found out, as this is effectively hiding a potential claim hence falsely keeping his no-claim bonus.

 

[MacB]

Another thing to consider Pete is whether this guy would jump at the chance to deal privately and what his motivation for doing so may be. Maybe he's just one more accident away from having to take a re-test, or sit a medical or his insurance may say enough is enough and no more boat towing. By keeping it off the record you're potentially allowing something worse to happen.

 

[YahudaMoon]

Hi Pete. Glad your alive. Its just all part of the cycling malarkey getting bumped off the road unfortunately.

Hows the Klic Fix seat post bag ? Hope you didn't break it ha ha ha