My arrest story

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Disgruntled Goat said:
But when you have never been in trouble before and are being threatened with being charged and taken to court, it isn't always that easy to tell them to shove it is it?

I'm not having a go at your friend, but I always got fed up with members of the middle classes denying that members of the lower orders would admit to crimes they hadn't committed just to get out of the police station.
 
Flying_Monkey said:
So what do terrorists act like? He looked and acted exactly like many other people would have done, and are indeed entirely allowed to do in a democratic and accountable society - or have some people forgotten that this is what Britain is supposed to be in their enthusiasim for macho tactics?

However he looked 'foreign'. That was basically what this amounted to. None of the other things would have been 'suspicious' had that not been that case. We've been through exactly the same thing with Jean Charles de Menezes, in which all kinds of 'terrorist activity' were reported from changing modes of transport (gasp!), to running in an tube station (no!), to wearing a bulky coat (never!) and carrying a backpack (who on earth in their right mind would carry a back pack?).

Never mind that these were shown to be largely misidentifications and half-truths later, the situation is that if it's been decided that you look like a terrorist, your appearance and actions are then reinterpreted (at the time by the racist, twitchy officer) and then afterwards by tabloids or the kind of armchair know-nothings who inhabit web fora.

If you are a normal person going about your legal business, you don't know you are 'acting like a terrorist' until someone arrests you for it - and why would it occur to you? You are innocent. The only people who would be concerned about not being seen to 'act like a terrorist' would be:

1. terrorists; and
2. people who have so much bought into the state line on the need for repressive measures that they repress themselves in advance and become nice compliant little subjects. They then try to impose these new 'social values' on the rest of us and try to paint those who don't comply as latent terrorists or legitimately suspicious.

I don't see any of the former here - least of all pzychoman, who has posted here on all sorts of topics (particularly cycling and photography), but I can see several of the latter.

You are coming across as a paranoid fool.

If you read the arrest story you can see four points that aroused suspicion;
  • He was quizzing the cop about his activities.
  • He was looking nervous.
  • He had a picture on his camera in the pose of a suicide bomber holding a gun.
  • His skin was the right colour to fit a general description.

Now having seen these four factors, what should the cop do? It is quite simple: he has to check him out. (The cops attitude and actions is a different matter) Even if he is only 1% suspicious he has to act on his instinct and training and check out the person.

If it was simply a racial thing then they would arrest all darker skinned people. Race is not an issue. If someone fitting my description robbed a bank and ran down my road would the cops be right in suspecting me of robbing the bank if I was innocently out in the street? Of course they would.

In doing their job they will question innocent people, they will accuse innocent people and they will upset innocent people. Ultimately they are doing this to preserve out freedom not deny it to us.

As has been mentioned back in the thread, when the IRA were bombing London, Irish people were viewed suspiciously. The fact remained that all the bombers were Irish!

Can you honestly say that this guy was not doing anything to arouse suspicion? I agree he was not committing a crime but you confuse that with acting suspiciously. The two are not the same.

Freedom is taken away by people with bombs not those trying to stop them.

I really think you may be a Terrorist sympathiser as you seem to be doing all you can to make their task easier.
 

CopperBrompton

Bicycle: a means of transport between cake-stops
Location
London
I think there is some confusion in this thread between two quite distinct issues.

The first is whether or not it is right that we "give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety." On that matter, I am with Mr Franklin and the majority of those who have expressed a view.

The second, entirely separate, issue is how it makes sense to respond to the paranoid times in which we find ourselves. Does it make sense to question an armed police officer about his movements? Is it sensible to have a photo of (apparent) automatic weapons on your phone? Is it wise to have a photo of yourself dressed in camouflage gear on you? I would suggest that the answers to all those questions are 'no'.

Ben
 
Location
EDINBURGH
Over The Hill said:
You are coming across as a paranoid fool.

If you read the arrest story you can see four points that aroused suspicion;
  • He was quizzing the cop about his activities.
He was just making conversation.
Over The Hill said:
  • He was looking nervous.
Was he? I didn't read that anywhere.
Over The Hill said:
  • He had a picture on his camera in the pose of a suicide bomber holding a gun.
Suicide bombers don't hold guns, they strap explosive vests on, the clue is in the name.
Over The Hill said:
  • His skin was the right colour to fit a general description.
There you go, dark skin, must be up to no good then.
 
OK - I have read all of this thread and there is a lot of interesting and persuasive comment...
Pzycoman - I notice that you haven't posted since publishing the blog and photo - no problem there, but, as you have visited the forum on most days, I guess that you are keeping pace with the discussion that has arisen from your original post.
Having digested this information, do you have any further reflections?
 

Flying_Monkey

Recyclist
Location
Odawa
Over The Hill said:
I really think you may be a Terrorist sympathiser as you seem to be doing all you can to make their task easier.

You know you have lost any credibility when you start saying things like this. In fact, statements like this just demonstrate the point I was making.
 

Tynan

Veteran
Location
e4
this is what 'we' all signed up for in this supposed war against supposed terror

shitloads of coppers all over the country desperate to fine almost non existent terrorists, armed with draconian powers

if you don't like it, do something about it, general rules are to avoid coppers like the plague anyway, they're invariably peanuts
 
Over The Hill said:
You are coming across as a paranoid fool.

If you read the arrest story you can see four points that aroused suspicion;
  • He was quizzing the cop about his activities.
  • He was looking nervous.
  • He had a picture on his camera in the pose of a suicide bomber holding a gun.
  • His skin was the right colour to fit a general description.
Now having seen these four factors, what should the cop do? It is quite simple: he has to check him out. (The cops attitude and actions is a different matter) Even if he is only 1% suspicious he has to act on his instinct and training and check out the person.

If it was simply a racial thing then they would arrest all darker skinned people. Race is not an issue. If someone fitting my description robbed a bank and ran down my road would the cops be right in suspecting me of robbing the bank if I was innocently out in the street? Of course they would.

In doing their job they will question innocent people, they will accuse innocent people and they will upset innocent people. Ultimately they are doing this to preserve out freedom not deny it to us.

As has been mentioned back in the thread, when the IRA were bombing London, Irish people were viewed suspiciously. The fact remained that all the bombers were Irish!

Can you honestly say that this guy was not doing anything to arouse suspicion? I agree he was not committing a crime but you confuse that with acting suspiciously. The two are not the same.

Freedom is taken away by people with bombs not those trying to stop them.

I really think you may be a Terrorist sympathiser as you seem to be doing all you can to make their task easier.

As I agree with pretty well everything FM has posted on this topic, does that make me a terrorist sympathiser too?
 
Over The Hill said:
You are coming across as a paranoid fool.

If you read the arrest story you can see four points that aroused suspicion;
  • He was quizzing the cop about his activities.
  • He was looking nervous.
  • He had a picture on his camera in the pose of a suicide bomber holding a gun.
  • His skin was the right colour to fit a general description.
Now having seen these four factors, what should the cop do? It is quite simple: he has to check him out. (The cops attitude and actions is a different matter) Even if he is only 1% suspicious he has to act on his instinct and training and check out the person.

If it was simply a racial thing then they would arrest all darker skinned people. Race is not an issue. If someone fitting my description robbed a bank and ran down my road would the cops be right in suspecting me of robbing the bank if I was innocently out in the street? Of course they would.

In doing their job they will question innocent people, they will accuse innocent people and they will upset innocent people. Ultimately they are doing this to preserve out freedom not deny it to us.

As has been mentioned back in the thread, when the IRA were bombing London, Irish people were viewed suspiciously. The fact remained that all the bombers were Irish!

Can you honestly say that this guy was not doing anything to arouse suspicion? I agree he was not committing a crime but you confuse that with acting suspiciously. The two are not the same.

Freedom is taken away by people with bombs not those trying to stop them.

I really think you may be a Terrorist sympathiser as you seem to be doing all you can to make their task easier.


I think there are two issues here:

In hindesight, in the current climate of fear, suspicion and paranoia, perhaps he was ill advised to do what he did, a bit like my friend with the knife at Wimbledon.

However how he was arrested and his subsequent treatment was utterly inexcusable.

I am also wondering why the OP hasn't subsequently posted. A lot of points have been raised that he should really respond to.
 
Patrick Stevens said:
As I agree with pretty well everything FM has posted on this topic, does that make me a terrorist sympathiser too?


1. Simple question you need to answer. Given the 4 points of suspicion (which are not in dispute), if you were the cop would you have questioned him further or simply walked away.

2. In answer to your point- If it quacks it is probably a duck. If you stick you head above the crowd and start pressing to stop police checks and for fewer measures to combat terrorism then are you not making the job of the terrorist easier. Do you not see that a terrorist sympathiser would make such a post and use this sort of forum to provoke a backlash against such checks.

Rather like the Gun Lobby in the US are hiding behind a cloak of "freedom" rather than being "pro gun". Your "freedom" will simply bring bombs instead of guns.
 
Disgruntled Goat said:
I think there are two issues here:

In hindesight, in the current climate of fear, suspicion and paranoia, perhaps he was ill advised to do what he did, a bit like my friend with the knife at Wimbledon.

However how he was arrested and his subsequent treatment was utterly inexcusable.

I am also wondering why the OP hasn't subsequently posted. A lot of points have been raised that he should really respond to.

I compleatly agree with you on the treatment issue but that is as you say another issue and it must not fog the decision to arrest.

If fear, suspicion and paranoia is what you want to call it then so be it, You can also call it tight security and vigilance and caution. Either way can you say that the threat is not real? Can you say that the threat is reduced by such a policy? Yes it is a real threat and yes the policy reduces such threat .

I have been in London near a bomb blast and my Brother was in the next block to the World Trade Centre and lost about 30 friends and collegues in it. This is the reality of the threat.
If you ask him if he would like a man with a gun patrolling our airports and targets, do you think he would say no because there is a chance he may arrest the wrong man?
 

Canrider

Guru
To requote, then:
Catrike UK said:
1) He was just making conversation.

2) Was he? I didn't read that anywhere.

3) Suicide bombers don't hold guns, they strap explosive vests on, the clue is in the name.

4) There you go, dark skin, must be up to no good then.
 
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