Motorsports Thread

[Bonefish Blues]

Yes but...if one of the previous races had had a slightly different result, that final lap would not have altered the outcome. This is why Verstappen’s win is not tarnished.

What is being debated is the application of rules and procedures on the last couple of laps of the final race. Yes they were incorrectly applied, and yes the result of the final race was affected.

But the championship was still won and lost over the course of the season. If Hamilton, for example, had picked up an extra couple of points back in, say, June, the whole “last lap, safety car” shenanigans would have been irrelevant…

Well yes, if Spa hadn't been declared a race, and so on - but that wasn't the case, was it - it was all on the final race of the season. First to the line wins.

Which race, however, wasn't run according to the rules, to the manifest benefit of the competitor who was soundly beaten in that race - until he became the winner.

 

[FishFright]

Well yes, if Spa hadn't been declared a race, and so on - but that wasn't the case, was it - it was all on the final race of the season. First to the line wins.

Which race, however, wasn't run according to the rules, to the manifest benefit of the competitor who was soundly beaten in that race - until he became the winner.

If you ignore all the other times throughout the season where the races were not run according to the rules this is true.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

If you ignore all the other times throughout the season where the races were not run according to the rules this is true.

The officiating in general was hugely inconsistent through the season, I agree - I think we've had this point of violent agreement previously, but as our colleague said, it was all on this final race - and it was cocked up, royally so (I don't believe it was a conspiracy tho', unlike some) and the upcocking was done in front of hundreds of millions of people.

 

[Alex321]

Yes but...if one of the previous races had had a slightly different result, that final lap would not have altered the outcome. This is why Verstappen’s win is not tarnished.

What is being debated is the application of rules and procedures on the last couple of laps of the final race. Yes they were incorrectly applied, and yes the result of the final race was affected.

But the championship was still won and lost over the course of the season. If Hamilton, for example, had picked up an extra couple of points back in, say, June, the whole “last lap, safety car” shenanigans would have been irrelevant…

Sorry, but you can't say "it wasn't tarnished because if things had been different it wouldn't have mattered".

Things weren't different. It doesn't matter what might have happened if they had been.

The simple fact is that it was so close over the season that whoever beat the other in the final race won the championship, and then that final race was manipulated.

 

[classic33]

Goes to show that there may be something in the Schumacher caused the safety car on purpose theory.

If he'd forced Latifi of the track at turn 9, Latifi would have clean tyres. There'd have been no crash, no safety car and Perez would still have been out on track.
Or if Latifi had been unable to restart at turn 9, there'd have been a VSC, and no overtaking.

Schumacher's record wasn't beaten.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

In my mind Max's title will always be tarnished - but not due to his fault

I feel that he is a great talent and was in the position he was in due to normal F1 stuff - including racing

It seems a shame that someone with his talent has a question mark against his first title - I hope he wins more - but only after Lewis retires
and Lando
and George

 

[Alex321]

In my mind Max's title will always be tarnished - but not due to his fault

Absolutely. I don't blame Max for it in the slightest.

He wasn't the one manipulating things, he just completely reasonably took advantage of what was handed to him. I would not have expected any driver to do any differently at that point.

I feel that he is a great talent and was in the position he was in due to normal F1 stuff - including racing

It seems a shame that someone with his talent has a question mark against his first title - I hope he wins more - but only after Lewis retires
and Lando
and George

Agreed, he certainly has the talent. Maybe a little over aggressive at times, but you don't generally get to be world champion in any sport by being Mr Nice guy.

 

[icowden]

He wasn't the one manipulating things, he just completely reasonably took advantage of what was handed to him. I would not have expected any driver to do any differently at that point.

And I think that both Mercedes and Hamilton have also very clearly stated that. They don't begrudge Red Bull or Max the victory in those circumstances as any team would take the opportunity to win if it were handed to them. What they wanted was a very clear reassessment of the rules and the understanding that they will be applied fairly for the next season.

 

[classic33]

And I think that both Mercedes and Hamilton have also very clearly stated that. They don't begrudge Red Bull or Max the victory in those circumstances as any team would take the opportunity to win if it were handed to them. What they wanted was a very clear reassessment of the rules and the understanding that they will be applied fairly for the next season.

Mercedes also wanted, and got, the 2021 F1 technical director removed* from his position for dropping their appeal. Gap on rear wing too small, no longer a problem.

How Mercedes, Wolff, can manage to lay the blame on Masi for the Australian race, in 2020 being cancelled I'm not certain.

*"the technical removed" corrected to "2021 F1 technical director removed".

 

[icowden]

Mercedes also wanted, and got, the F1 technical removed from his position for dropping their appeal.

But F1.com is still coming out with crap like this:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...gain-f1-supremacy.7mgcpaq9yqzeSth5jco7iQ.html

Apparently, even after winning the constructors championship they somehow need to "regain" their supremacy. I thought that you had supremacy until someone else took it away by becoming supreme. Not in F1 world!

 

[FishFright]

But F1.com is still coming out with crap like this:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...gain-f1-supremacy.7mgcpaq9yqzeSth5jco7iQ.html

Apparently, even after winning the constructors championship they somehow need to "regain" their supremacy. I thought that you had supremacy until someone else took it away by becoming supreme. Not in F1 world!

A lot of the F1 media has been full of Mercedes flexing in front of a mirror and Hamilton being tougher than ever.

I expect a fair amount posturing pre season but it's getting silly now.

 

[matticus]

Things weren't different. It doesn't matter what might have happened if they had been.

The simple fact is that it was so close over the season that ...

... the washed-out, tedious, non-event of Spa turned out to be the key moment of the season.

(In hindsight. Obvs.)

HTH

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Absolutely. I don't blame Max for it in the slightest.

He wasn't the one manipulating things, he just completely reasonably took advantage of what was handed to him. I would not have expected any driver to do any differently at that point.


Agreed, he certainly has the talent. Maybe a little over aggressive at times, but you don't generally get to be world champion in any sport by being Mr Nice guy.

In the way that Genghis Khan was a bit of a rascal on the odd occasion and did a bit of murder

 

[Reynard]

Well, the Russian GP has gone down the pan. No surprise there.

Haas ran in plain white livery today in pre-season testing. Gunther Steiner was quoted as saying that the position of Nikita Mazepin in the team is under review.

If Mazepin gets the grand order of the boot, F1 will lose the least talented driver ever to grace the series.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Well, the Russian GP has gone down the pan. No surprise there.

Haas ran in plain white livery today in pre-season testing. Gunther Steiner was quoted as saying that the position of Nikita Mazepin in the team is under review.

If Mazepin gets the grand order of the boot, F1 will lose the least talented driver ever to grace the series.

Oh I think that'd be a right old race to the bottom!