Motorsports Thread

[FishFright]

And just for completeness, I was surprised that Lewis was allowed to keep the lead on Lap 1 - I think that was a bad call, because Max was, in RB's words, aggressive but fair in that one. Who knows why - perhaps Max's previous overtakes/defences swayed things, but that was a legitimate pass in my view.

If there was a gravel trap at the corner Hamilton would have braked. I can see why he didn't what he did though.

Tarmac runoffs are safer but are being abused far too much without sanction. Again Masi's fault.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

True, but Mercedes were the only team to have brought legal aid, a QC, to the race.

He was a guest at the final GP, so I understand - that's why he was in shorts as opposed to more formal garb - they just rounded him up and off they went

 

[Alex321]

But still within the rules.

Only on the ridiculous technicality that the Race Director can override any of the rules he feels like.

There were two things he did there which were definitely and clearly outside the rules generally in force. First, allowing only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to unlap themselves. It is all or none. Second, allowing the race to restart before those unlapped cars had made their way back around to the tail of the procession.

 

[Alex321]

Having reviewed lots of expert opinion from ex racers and journalists. They are almost all in agreement that it was shoddy work from the stewards and Hamilton was very hard done by. But there is little to be gained from a long drawn out legal battle.
Someone at FIA and the company running the sport needs to take Toto to one side, admit it was an unsatisfactory ending and ask him to withdraw the complaint for the sake of the sport.
I wanted Hamilton to win his 8th WDC but not in the courts.

Agreed. There is really nothing much to be gained now by court action. All that will do is drag the name of F1 even further into the mud.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

Only on the ridiculous technicality that the Race Director can override any of the rules he feels like.

There were two things he did there which were definitely and clearly outside the rules generally in force. First, allowing only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to unlap themselves. It is all or none. Second, allowing the race to restart before those unlapped cars had made their way back around to the tail of the procession.

F1 is all about technicalities, but no matter the whys and wherefores, it was not against the rules.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Only on the ridiculous technicality that the Race Director can override any of the rules he feels like.

There were two things he did there which were definitely and clearly outside the rules generally in force. First, allowing only the cars between Hamilton and Verstappen to unlap themselves. It is all or none. Second, allowing the race to restart before those unlapped cars had made their way back around to the tail of the procession. Then, on the following lap the SC is brought in.

Just to add that final sentence.

And to add, consensus is heavily against your view re the rules CG - which goes, as far as I can see way beyond the Lewis fans, to include a specialist sports lawyer this morning, I was listening to.

ETA
But I fully accept that consensus isn't the awarding body of the WDC.


...but the CAS may be

 

[icowden]

Note "Where possible". That makes a huge difference, and yes, it has always been the preference.

And Masi could still have done that. He didn't need to decide to unlap 4 cars. Max would still have had a chance, it would have been much harder, but he would still have had those softs and blue flags and the opportunity to try to catch Hamilton - and again - we wouldn't all be saying "stitch up". Instead he put max alongside Lewis and ruined the race.

Equally - he could have ordered Lewis to give the place back. I think Lewis would still have taken Max though.His pace was phenomenal.

 

[figbat]

F1 is all about technicalities, but no matter the whys and wherefores, it was not against the rules.

There is no regulation that allows for partial unlapping of cars. None. Why? Because it is unfair and impedes competition. There is only the regulation that "requires" all lapped cars to be unlapped and that also demands that the safety car come in a lap later. Or there is the discretionary choice not to have cars unlap themselves. These are within the regulations. The supposed autocracy of the race director is not absolute and covers if and when the safety car should be deployed, but still does not allow for partial unlapping or making up rules along the way.

You're clearly pushing an unpopular opinion to get a rise and it is promoting (so far) well-mannered debate, but it has no basis in fact and appears to be based on the FIA's "because we said so" defence.

 

[Beebo]

Anyone know what the bookmakers are doing at the moment?
Do they pay out or not?
Imagine putting a couple of grand on a Hamilton win at the start of the season. You’d feel totally robbed. Similarly if you’ve done the same for verstappen you’d want your money now.

 

[ClichéGuevara]

There is no regulation that allows for partial unlapping of cars. None. Why? Because it is unfair and impedes competition. There is only the regulation that "requires" all lapped cars to be unlapped and that also demands that the safety car come in a lap later. Or there is the discretionary choice not to have cars unlap themselves. These are within the regulations. The supposed autocracy of the race director is not absolute and covers if and when the safety car should be deployed, but still does not allow for partial unlapping or making up rules along the way.

You're clearly pushing an unpopular opinion to get a rise and it is promoting (so far) well-mannered debate, but it has no basis in fact and appears to be based on the FIA's "because we said so" defence.

I'd say you misquoting the regulations to try and support what is a spurious argument (as confirmed by the FIA) is more akin to a rise.

 

[Beebo]

The best analogy I’ve heard is a football match where one team is 3-0 up.
The ref declares that the next goal wins because he has the ultimate decision on how to interpret the rules and he wants an exciting last few minutes.
Plus the team behind can bring on 5 new substitutes to freshen things up a bit.

 

[FishFright]

There is no regulation that allows for partial unlapping of cars. None. Why? Because it is unfair and impedes competition. There is only the regulation that "requires" all lapped cars to be unlapped and that also demands that the safety car come in a lap later. Or there is the discretionary choice not to have cars unlap themselves. These are within the regulations. The supposed autocracy of the race director is not absolute and covers if and when the safety car should be deployed, but still does not allow for partial unlapping or making up rules along the way.

You're clearly pushing an unpopular opinion to get a rise and it is promoting (so far) well-mannered debate, but it has no basis in fact and appears to be based on the FIA's "because we said so" defence.

There is apparently , read the stewards decision on Mercedes's protest.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Anyone know what the bookmakers are doing at the moment?
Do they pay out or not?
Imagine putting a couple of grand on a Hamilton win at the start of the season. You’d feel totally robbed. Similarly if you’ve done the same for verstappen you’d want your money now.

Paddy Power paid out singles on WDC to punters who had either Max or Lewis.

Clever marketeers, Paddys

 

[ClichéGuevara]

The best analogy I’ve heard is a football match where one team is 3-0 up.
The ref declares that the next goal wins because he has the ultimate decision on how to interpret the rules and he wants an exciting last few minutes.
Plus the team behind can bring on 5 new substitutes to freshen things up a bit.

That's not a particularly apt analogy, and in any event, it would only work if that option was already written in to the rules that all clubs signed up for.

 

[T4tomo]

F1 results now have about as much credibility as the wrestling I used to watch in the 80's on World of Sport.

And the wrestling was more entertaining.