FishFright
More wheels than sense
At no point was Russell ahead enough to claim the corner . The impact was on Russell not being able to prevent the wheels sliding which lead to the impact.
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At no point was Russell ahead enough to claim the corner . The impact was on Russell not being able to prevent the wheels sliding which lead to the impact.
But neither was Verstappen. He was on the outside and not ahead. Russell didn't need to be ahead to claim the corner. He already had it.
FishFright
More wheels than sense
Verstappen was ahead and had the line. The overtaking car , especially when on the inside line , has the responsibility not to hit the car he's overtaking.
When?
Corner 1 - Russell and Verstappen side by side, Russell has the inside.
Corner 2 - Russell is very slightly behind but has the inside line on the corner. Max gets ahead under braking, but cuts right across leaving Russell nowhere to go - gets a tap as a result, slides and nearly hits the wall.
Corner 3 - Russell and Verstappen side by side, Russell has the inside. This time Russell's corner is wider so Max has to back off.
Had Max not taken such an aggressive line at corner 2 he would probably have avoided damage and still come out ahead.
Drago
Legendary Member
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- Suburban Poshshire
I'd agree Max had the line, and Russell did not have his car established "substantially" alongside at the moment of contact. That's not not set in stone but usually taken to mean the leading wheel at least half way between the 2 wheels of the car being overtaken.
Russell had been up alongside, perhaps fractionally ahead a moment prior, but Max had the line as was thus carrying more speed so by the moment of the impact a second or so later his front wheel was barely in front of Max's rear, thus not substantially alongside, thus regardless of who had the line it was his duty to yield in the sporting regs. Watch the footage on Sky Sports website, Max is well aged a the crucial moment of contact and that is the key metric in the absence of other factors.
However, I don't even think its a case of failing to yield, more a case of Russell understeering just a little on cold tyres. Had his tryres been up to fulk operating temperature I think hed have gripped and pulled in behind Max to either try the slipstream or keep within range for a later DRS attack. However, I - and the Marshalls - don't think Russell was being reckless. Its wasn't much of a slide, cold tyres and all that. Racing incident. Even Toto Wolff has expressed sympathy for Max on that one, while diplomatically not condemning his own driver.
Russell had been up alongside, perhaps fractionally ahead a moment prior, but Max had the line as was thus carrying more speed so by the moment of the impact a second or so later his front wheel was barely in front of Max's rear, thus not substantially alongside, thus regardless of who had the line it was his duty to yield in the sporting regs. Watch the footage on Sky Sports website, Max is well aged a the crucial moment of contact and that is the key metric in the absence of other factors.
However, I don't even think its a case of failing to yield, more a case of Russell understeering just a little on cold tyres. Had his tryres been up to fulk operating temperature I think hed have gripped and pulled in behind Max to either try the slipstream or keep within range for a later DRS attack. However, I - and the Marshalls - don't think Russell was being reckless. Its wasn't much of a slide, cold tyres and all that. Racing incident. Even Toto Wolff has expressed sympathy for Max on that one, while diplomatically not condemning his own driver.
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FishFright
More wheels than sense
Russell inside line so has the responsibility
Russell was the overtaking car so has the responsibility
Russell ran of grip/talent so his car slid into the RB
Racing incident
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Drago
Legendary Member
- Location
- Suburban Poshshire
I don't think jts even a case of submitting or failing to - watch closely and George slides about a tyres width, maybe less, off to his 2 O'clock. If that hadn't happened he'd have got round.
Had George just driven into him then there could be an argument there, but he didn't. He simply lost grip.
Max, for all his prowess, doesn't have a crystal ball, and couldn't predict another driver momentarily losing control of their scoot. You have to presume that your fellow drivers know what they are doing otherwise no one would ever get into a scrap. It's the opposite to us out on the road where we have to presume that everyone we meet is out of control.
Had George just driven into him then there could be an argument there, but he didn't. He simply lost grip.
Max, for all his prowess, doesn't have a crystal ball, and couldn't predict another driver momentarily losing control of their scoot. You have to presume that your fellow drivers know what they are doing otherwise no one would ever get into a scrap. It's the opposite to us out on the road where we have to presume that everyone we meet is out of control.
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OP
OP
Reynard
Guru
- Location
- Cambridgeshire, UK
On a street circuit where the wall is inches away, if you're on the outside, you're putting yourself in the danger zone. Motor racing's version of Caveat Emptor.
Max gambled. And lost.
Hard cheese, sunshine.
Max gambled. And lost.
Hard cheese, sunshine.
Illaveago
Guru
- Location
- Chippenham,Wiltshire.
I see that a lot of the drivers were complaining about the shortening of the DRS section which meant that there wasn't much overtaking . Lando Norris was so fed up that he wished the race was over by lap 20.
I thought it was a bit boring as there wasn't much overtaking. Only the Red Bulls managed to overtake .
I thought it was a bit boring as there wasn't much overtaking. Only the Red Bulls managed to overtake .
figbat
Slippery scientist
- Location
- South Oxfordshire, UK
Whereas last year the general consensus (from onlookers) was that the DRS zone was too long, making it too easy to get past.
I hate DRS - it's essentially a free pass to overtake if you are anywhere near the car in front. Now that we have ground effect cars that can follow more closely they should ditch DRS and let the drivers do it on the brakes, like the olden days.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
But doesn't the last race prove that wouldn't work? The train that Lando was in was being led by a car without DRS yet even with DRS they still couldn't get past it, so if you took it off them would it not still be status quo?
Agreed. The problem for F1 in terms of overtaking is that you either have a team with a car which is significantly faster / better than all the other teams (see Red Bull now, Mercedes in the past) and can therefore overtake but makes the competition boring as they win every race, or you have development where the teams are very close which then means that there is no real prospect of overtaking. The drivers are all very skilled and the margins between the cars are tiny. The RB is noticeable just because of the vast difference between it and the other teams.
Whilst DRS is artificial, it does at least provide a mechanism for the drivers to compete and overtake even if it is a bit artificial.
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FishFright
More wheels than sense
I'd rather watch 1 overtake based on skill than 100 breeze pasts on DRS.
If Red Bull are the only team to make their DRS work so much better , especially if it improves , then this could be the end of DRS. Of course there would be a raft of poorly thought out, ineffectual rule changes before that happens.