Motorsports Thread

[classic33]

Masi was in the pit lane and paddock area over the entire race weekend.

 

[Drago]

Team? Is there a proven link between Masi, RB & his actions?

To be fair it's Toto Wolff that started the trend for haranguing the race director over the radio live during the race and Ramilton himself to a lesser degree rrom the cockpit.

Charlie Whiting had the bandwidth to deal with it - he was a remarkably talented and capable individual - and it is perhaps unfair to Masi or indeed any individual to be able to drop straight in and perform at a level that took Whiting decades to achieve. Masi had enough to do without the teams trying to directly manipulate him.

At several times earlier in the '21 season it worked in MB's favour and the MB fans never batted an eyelid. It was all jolly japes when the game was being played in their favour. The MB fans actually loved it. When the cards fell their way it was fair and just.

I don't have a lot of time for Ramilton since he tried to blame racism for his ill fortune at Monaco in 2011, but I do have sympathy with him over Masi's decision. However, it's his team that started the "hassle the race director" game over the radio and it only suddenly becomes unfair/cheating/a red bull conspiracy when suddenly they're losing at it.

Part of being a mature adult is understanding that your own actions can have unintended consequences, and learning to take it on the chin when that happens. Well, Wolff created a monster and when jt mattered most he lost control of it. The world is a much better place now the FIA have banned such contact during the actual race, and the directors duties are now split among several individuals.

In any case, Felipe Massa is right. Even if he were gifted the 8th championship he would still morally only have 7 titles because he only won the first one because Flavio Briatore illegally attempted to manipulate the race by having Piquet Jr deliberately crash, and resulting safety car etc worked inadvertently in Ramilton's favour.

His fans can't have it both ways - if race results should be over ruled to suit them because of perceived error or cheating, then that should equally apply to his first title. You can't pick and choose. Whichever way you look at it, in absolute terms or moral terms, he has 7 titles because if you gift him the 8th then the same logic must also disregard the 1st.

Edit - here we go. Ramilton won the championship by a single point, so this race that was very deliberately manipulated was key in winning him the title. Its long been known that Briatore rigged this and he was expelled from the sport, but new information has come to light that Mosley and Ecclestone deliberately chose not to correct the race result for what they felt was the greater good of the sport, ie, viewing figures and thus Bernie's income.

So by all means give Lewis his 8th title, but by the same logic the 1st must surely now be taken from him and given to Massa in order to satisfy icowden's craving for fairness.

https://racingnews365.com/massa-assessing-legal-options-over-2008-title-loss-to-hamilton

So that's 7 titles, not 8, whichever way you choose to slice the cake. When it happens let's be sure to tell the fans that it is what icowden wanted. Who knows, if this goes all the way to law and Massa wins (unlikely in the extreme, but let's pretend) then poor old Lewis will have only 6 titles and icowden will probably spontaneously combust.

 

[icowden]

So that's 7 titles, not 8, whichever way you choose to slice the cake. When it happens let's be sure to tell the fans that it is what icowden wanted. Who knows, if this goes all the way to law and Massa wins (unlikely in the extreme, but let's pretend) then poor old Lewis will have only 6 titles and icowden will probably spontaneously combust.

Fair point. 7 to match Schumacher's 7.

 

[Drago]

6 titles. I'm still chucking at the prospect. The argument is actually quite compelling. After all, how can the FIA rules on timescales and finality be valid in this instance when the head of the FIA himself deliberately conspired with Ecclestone to suppress the truth of the incident?

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/m...options-over-2008-f1-title-outcome-/10453168/

Not only that, imagine how much Massa will be into them for as compo for a decade and a half of lost revenue that he could have earned from his status as champ?

 

[figbat]

But how does one adjust a whole season? If a race mid-season is deemed to need adjusting, then what? If the result had been corrected at the time there’s an argument that the teams and drivers may have acted differently at subsequent races, depending on whether they were chasing or defending a championship lead. The whole thing would have played out differently.

Massa may have a shot at compensation for hurt feelings and loss of earnings but there’s no way they can retrospectively change the championship outcome.

 

[Drago]

If he did win and a court ordered it then the FIA would have to figure something out. Doubyless he would argue that yhe FIA can't cherrypick their rules - they either all apply and should be enforced, or not.

But back in the real world I reckon he has only a miniscule chance of winning should he pursue it, probably not even that much.

More pertinently it serves as a very valid foil against those who prattle on about how they consider Ramilton an 8 times champion - by their own argument he is really only 6 times world title holder because the first one was snatched from Massa in the same way number 8 was snatched from Ramilton, by the rules not being properly applied.

 

[Illaveago]

If he did win and a court ordered it then the FIA would have to figure something out. Doubyless he would argue that yhe FIA can't cherrypick their rules - they either all apply and should be enforced, or not.

But back in the real world I reckon he has only a miniscule chance of winning should he pursue it, probably not even that much.

More pertinently it serves as a very valid foil against those who prattle on about how they consider Ramilton an 8 times champion - by their own argument he is really only 6 times world title holder because the first one was snatched from Massa in the same way number 8 was snatched from Ramilton, by the rules not being properly applied.

You are forgetting his first World Championship which went to Raikkonen. Bernie Ecclestone said that he doesn't have to win the championship in his first year! It was manipulated so that he didn't .
If Mass is awarded the championship then Damon Hill could claim it for being crashed into by Michael Schumacher in Australia .

 

[Jody]

You are forgetting his first World Championship which went to Raikenen. Bernie Ecclestone said that he doesn't have to win the championship in his first year! It was manipulated so that he didn't .

I'd love to know what went on in 2007 but it's only ever going to come out after Lewis retires.

The team must have sabotaged him and Nando due to spygate. Imagine the ramifications if uncle Ron let them win having been caught stealing Ferraris data.

They got a €100 million fine without winning.

 

[matticus]

You are forgetting his first World Championship which went to

oh for goodness sake.

If we just give him a certificate saying he won TEN WDCs, will he retire??

 

[Jody]

oh for goodness sake.

If we just give him a certificate saying he won TEN WDCs, will he retire??

But if Massa has a point then so does Lewis for the year previous.

Where does it stop?

 

[icowden]

But if Massa has a point then so does Lewis for the year previous.

Where does it stop?

Exactly. If a result was changed it would trigger a whole house of cards falling down. If you look at Lance Armstrong, they voided most of his results, but they didn't then change the result such that the second place person was now a winner. He kept his trophies and winnings.

 

[Reynard]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand in other news...

Team Dynamics are not going to be competing in this year's BTCC - seems they can't get sponsors according to the article on BTCC.net - though they will be providing technical support to One Racing.

That explains why Dan Rowbottom jumped ship to Ford a few weeks back.

Oh, and Jade Edwards has moved to Team Hard (Seat Cupra) for this year.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

That's a biggy, wonder if being taken over by Matt has anything to do with it, have Honda & Halfords also pulled out?

 

[Reynard]

That's a biggy, wonder if being taken over by Matt has anything to do with it, have Honda & Halfords also pulled out?

The Neals have always owned the team. They've been a going concern in saloon and touring car racing since the late 80s... There wasn't much detail in the article TBH, but they did lose the YUASA sponsorship when they gave Dan Cammish the boot.

 

[Deleted member 26715]

The Neals have always owned the team. They've been a going concern in saloon and touring car racing since the late 80s... There wasn't much detail in the article TBH, but they did lose the YUASA sponsorship when they gave Dan Cammish the boot.

Yes, but his father Steve? stood down when Matt stopped racing & took over end of 2021