metro article on helmets

[Little yellow Brompton]

Hardly. What I am saying is how much worse would it have been had he not had that inch thick layer of polystyrene around the skull if at all? The helmet taking the extra force of the impact which otherwise 'could have' caused more significant injuries to his skull. Im not stupid I do understand that helmets dont actually 'save lives' in any situation, but would JC have even made it to hospital if he had not been wearing the helmet, discounting the stupid mirror bolt theory that has no evidence. Its something to think about, im not saying it did stop him from dying.. im saying did it stop him from dying?

Huh???

"The helmet taking the extra force of the impact which otherwise 'could have' caused more significant injuries to his skull"

Followed by

"discounting the stupid mirror bolt theory that has no evidence."


So it's "could have" for the bits you can't prove, but like; yet "no evidence" for the bits you don't like?

 

[snorri]

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with this article:

Which article?

 

[Norm]

Which article?

Presumably, the "metro article on helmets" which is the title of this thread.

 

[snorri]

This is why all children should wear a Thudguard:

Cunobelin, people will be suspecting you of having a financial involvement with the Th*****rd people.

 

[snorri]

Presumably, the "metro article on helmets" which is the title of this thread.

Oh! I see, but the Metro article only has one sentence on the Australian experience, insufficient to come to any conclusions, I would think.

 

[Norm]

Oh! I see, but the Metro article only has one sentence on the Australian experience, insufficient to come to any conclusions, I would think.

Possibly - but then that sentence is, as Jefmcg says, kinda incomplete.

 

[Red Light]

There seems to be something fundamentally wrong with this article: helmet wearing is compulsory in Australia, enforced by large fines and enthusiastic police. It's also obvious to those police if you are not wearing one. I didn't see anyone not wearing a helmet last time I was in Melbourne. So therefore I would think that the percentage of cyclists not wearing a helmet would be << 20%. So if 20% of the deaths are of non-helmet wearers, that figure would suggest that helmets are saving lives.

I personally don't think that's true, and suspect everything in the linked article.

From memory the helmet wearing rate in Australia is 77%


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ufkacbln]

Cunobelin, people will be suspecting you of having a financial involvement with the Th*****rd people.

Sussed?

I just love this "helmet" as it ticks all the boxes...

Medical endorsement
RoSPA endorsement
Healthcare Professional testifying that not wearing one is dangerous
Healthcare professional stating that it saved a life
Faux figures for efficiency
Emotive blackmail.."how can you risk your child's life by not using one"

 

[ufkacbln]

Australia is interesting at the moment due to a lady called Sue Abbott

She was arrested for not wearing a helmet and appealed on the grounds that she was at increased risk of injury. The appeal judge upheld her position...

" there is a legitimate debate being waged by international medical and transportation experts regarding the safety and risks associated with helmet use.

The conclusion

Having read all the material, I think I would fall down on your (Abbott's) side of the ledger. ... I frankly don't think there is anything advantageous and there may well be a disadvantage in situations to have a helmet - and it seems to me that it's one of those areas where it ought to be a matter of choice.''

 

[ufkacbln]

discounting the stupid mirror bolt theory that has no evidence.

Whereas there is absolutely unequivocal evidence for the other theories and claims?

This is a classic............don't like that theory as it doesn't fit in with the "helmet saved a life" claim so in a typical playground flounce we will call it silly and dismiss it.

 

[Speedywheelsjeans]

Fair enough.. helmet wearers are dumb, we actually want to die, that why we strap polystyrene to our heads so we can break our necks, get our heads jammed under vehicles and have cars pass real close....

Because there is no evidence in the world to suggest helmets have actually ever save a life. Im sure youve all done PHD's into helmet safety and human biology and have loads of evidence to back up the nit picking little facts.

I shall continue to want to kill myself on the road and wear a helmet, because im not cool enough to not wear one.

 

[ufkacbln]

A

Fair enough.. helmet wearers are dumb, we actually want to die, that why we strap polystyrene to our heads so we can break our necks, get our heads jammed under vehicles and have cars pass real close....

Read what has been written, analyse the pros and cons then make up your own mind. Actually reading the thread would be interesting as (is usually the case) it is the pro helmet wearers who are the ones who use this type of terminology and imply that anyone who does not wear a helmet is wrong, foolish or stupid

Because there is no evidence in the world to suggest helmets have actually ever save a life. Im sure youve all done PHD's into helmet safety and human biology and have loads of evidence to back up the nit picking little facts.

Again reading the thread might be helpful.

What is being challenged is the omnipotence and evangelical belief in helmets as a wonderful panacea for all cycling's issues. Dismissing "nit picking facts" such as helmet standards, that they have a limited effectiveness, and can cause injury is a classic "denial" of facts that simply don't fit a fixed and closed agenda. However if someone is happy in their ignorance, and wishes to dismiss fact in favour of the fiction of "helmets save lives" in every case hen that is their decision

I shall continue to want to kill myself on the road and wear a helmet, because im not cool enough to not wear one.

Your choice.[/quote]

 

[Speedywheelsjeans]

Ive not even made a pro helmet comment, Ive just tried to open up some of the possibilities that helmets do actually do some good. but some people are so on their high horses that they would prefer to quote the metro and refuse to open their minds, then they slate me for trying to open the discussion a bit. People are acting like pro helmeters are the problem, but anti helmeters are just as naive and stubborn.

 

[Norm]

But you don't appear to have opened up to anything and, whilst I know it is impossible, you don't see that your comments like the sarcastic post above show that. No-one has said that they have never saved a life, but we have tried to refute the claims that you have to be stupid not to wear one or that wearing one is a guarantee of protection in an incident with a motor vehicle, yet they continue to be held out as a panacea.

As an example...

Good on her. In September 2010 I rammed a Focus Estate at a brisk commuting speed. My hip and legs took most of the impact, with my right femur smashing through the acetabulum, but I also hit my jaw into the car's tailgate and lost consciousness. As soon as I came to everybody started tutting over my lack of helmet (as always I looked dead sexy in my silly Italian cap you see): passers-by, police, ambulance crew, then A&E nurses, doctors, radiologist, even the bloke who drove a pin through my femur.

I also wonder if you have realise that at least three of the people who I guess you are including as anti-helmeters on this thread do regularly wear helmets.

Helmets may help in specific circumstances (is anyone else thinking of that video in, IIRC, Edinburgh where the cyclist runs straight into the back of a coach?), that is indisputable.

They may also make things worse in other specific circumstances, which seems to be a cause of concern to some.

They may increase the risks we face when riding in traffic, statistically proven, regularly (anecdotally) experience but some find that impossible to swallow.

 

[benb]

Fair enough.. helmet wearers are dumb, we actually want to die, that why we strap polystyrene to our heads so we can break our necks, get our heads jammed under vehicles and have cars pass real close....

Because there is no evidence in the world to suggest helmets have actually ever save a life. Im sure youve all done PHD's into helmet safety and human biology and have loads of evidence to back up the nit picking little facts.

I shall continue to want to kill myself on the road and wear a helmet, because im not cool enough to not wear one.

Where's the dislike button when we need it?

I will now make the only necessary post for any helmet debate:

1. There is no good evidence that helmets protect you from serious head injuries.
   The reason for that should be obvious by now - in a collision at the sort of speed where you are likely to suffer a serious head injury, the energy involved will outstrip the modest protective effect of a helmet. They may protect you at low impacts, but such an incident is very unlikely for even modestly experienced cyclists, and is unlikely to result in a serious head injury anyway.
2. There is no good evidence that helmets make injuries significantly worse.
   It's possible that helmets may make "rotational" head injuries worse, but the evidence for this is inconclusive at best.
3. Given 1 and 2, the decision of whether to wear a helmet should be down to the individual.
4. No-one is ever going to remove or infringe the right of people who choose to wear a helmet to do so.
5. There is a fairly constant underlying threat of helmet compulsion.
   The majority of sportives now require helmets to be worn, and there have been some cases where bikability or other training (which does have well documented safety benefits) has been refused to children without helmets.
   This, especially the latter, should be challenged and resisted.
6. The risk of head injury is similar as a pedestrian, and significantly greater as a pubgoer, but no-one ever suggests making pedestrian helmets or pub helmets mandatory, nor criticises people for not wearing one.
   This is astonishing double standards.
7. Widespread helmet use can give the impression that cycling is more dangerous than it is, which may put some people off cycling, and all the health benefits it brings. Cycling is pretty safe.

So, if you (or anyone) wants to wear one, do so. I will never try and persuade you that you shouldn't. I will, however, challenge the shoddy arguments that pro-helmeters often deploy. Please grant those of us who choose not to wear one the same freedom of choice as we extend to people who choose to wear one.

Thankyou.