Little yellow Brompton
A dark destroyer of biscuits!
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Now you have done it! You've brought science to a belief fight!
metro article on helmets
- Thread starter scotty110788
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So you agree for consistency you should be wearing a helmet as a pedestrian too to protect yourself from those much more frequent things that are out of your control when walking.
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Well with the rise of helmet / head cams, drivers are being punished for encroaching on a cyclist's space. If they're being punished then that's relevant enough to me with regard to the law.
Cigarettes and their dangers are very well documented across god-knows how many studies. You compared Walker's study to the dangers of cigarettes. One man's study, surrounded by a variable subject (different drivers) is not the same as hundreds of studies and evidence of the SAME chemicals' effects (static
subject) on a human.
Now if you tell me there are benefits of smoking just as there are to wearing a helmet...?
Your first point completely escapes me.
But cigarettes started with just one study which has subsequently been confirmed by others. Since Ian Walker's helmet study, another study has been carried out in the Us and has confirmed Walker's conclusions.
The benefits of smoking and helmets are rather similar. Before the evidence came in people believed smoking was healthy and some still do. The benefits of helmets are also a matter of belief but the evidence now emerging is starting to say otherwise.
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caimg
Über Member
You know I'm not going to agree with a ped wearing a helmet. If I'm walking on the pavement and a car rides onto the pavement and hits me then there is nothing I can do about that, it's not something that's even close to being a possibility. Cars stay on the road, peds on the pavement.
If I trip, I'm not going to fall on my head unless I'm an amputee and have lost the ability to try and cushion my fall at what would be a slow speed.
When cycling with the cars on a road I'm traveling faster than a ped on the pavement.
However, I'm amazed at the opposition to helmets to such a degree that I'll be chasing up all this research for sure...
and 
From my part, accepted and that's the bravest thing written on this thread, IMO.If you really are all ears, you will find it very difficult to get the helmet properly adjusted.
I used to wear a helmet all the time. Then, following many threads on here and doing my own nosing into research studies, I came to realise that a helmet will likely offer very little help if another vehicle is involved. If I fall off (or ride into a tree
) then a helmet will offer protection but if a car / van / bus etc is involved, they will do little. There may have been head injuries, but there may not. The chances are in that particular incident that the helmet may have helped but it's also not too difficult to imagine that she was either far enough from the car that she would have missed the car without the extra 3" of a helmet or that the peak of the helmet could have caught and snagged something giving whiplash injuries she wouldn't have otherwise received.
On the last point, it's also not exactly a likely event anyway.
This is where the scare stories come into it. As posted upthread, reality from accident stats is that you are just as likely to suffer a head injury walking as cycling. So why do so many people berate us for not wearing a helmet when cycling yet no-one would ever contemplate wearing one when walking?
That was a genuine laugh out loud moment. Thanks.
(and, erm, what are you doing for dinner? )It's not opposition to helmets, however it may look, because I reckon many of those who you feel are opposing you do wear helmets. It's trying to break through the illusory protective blanket that people place around cyclists who are wearing helmets.
Think about it, studies from hospital admissions show that cycling and walking are both risky for head injuries. Now, whilst the specifics of the stats can be discussed (is it measured per hour or per mile travelled and does it include old people etc) the point is not that they are exactly the same, or that one is slightly higher than the other, even if the difference is a magnitude of three or four, the point is that they are close enough to be considered broadly similar.
Yet we have this perception that cycling is dangerous and we have a whole industry built up around a perceived need to spend money on a bit of polystyrene to prevent us drinking through a straw when everyone laughs at suggestions that pedestrians should wear anything.
I guess I could phrase that another way. If you could be convinced that walking and cycling were equally as risky, then would that make you look anew at your perception of the risks cyclists face or the risks that walkers face? Would that make you more likely to wear a helmet when walking or less likely to wear a helmet when cycling?
Now you have done it! You've brought science to a belief fight!
I can only apologise for this indiscretion...
Little yellow Brompton
A dark destroyer of biscuits!
- Location
- Bridgend
"it's not something that's even close to being a possibility. Cars stay on the road, peds on the pavement."
Is that another of your beliefs? If so , now may be a Darwin moment...
"In London between 2001-05 there were 17 pedestrians killed by motor
vehicles on pavements or verges, ..."
0911_CP_RLJ-pavement_brf-1.pdf Access via http://www.colchester-cycling.org.uk/Advice/nuisancecyclists.html " see the briefing"
"If I trip, I'm not going to fall on my head unless I'm an amputee and have lost the ability to try and cushion my fall at what would be a slow speed. "
We will leave this one until "I'll be chasing up all this research for sure.." has happened. I'm willing to bet a pint of beer that you never do, or if you do will discount the evidence you don't like.
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scotty110788
Active Member
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didnt expect such a big read after work 
and not so many points of view, i wear mine because i got told its safer to when i was a young one and continued to use it (also think i look cool with it )
and not so many points of view, i wear mine because i got told its safer to when i was a young one and continued to use it (also think i look cool with it )
Little yellow Brompton
A dark destroyer of biscuits!
- Location
- Bridgend
No need to apologise, anyone that continues to use belief to argue with science deserve the same fate as those that think they can defeat radiation poisoning with prayer.
Little yellow Brompton
A dark destroyer of biscuits!
- Location
- Bridgend
A perfect example of why BHiT shoudn't be allowed anywhere near children.didnt expect such a big read after work
So you ever see cars on a pavement, are unaware that this is not the only source for head injuries, and have obviously got no idea at all about the capabilities of cycle helmets.
They are only effective in the low impact collisions that affect both pedestrians and cyclists...the whole point of the paper in the original post!
So there has never been a death or serious head injury to a pedestrian, all the Cohort studies are lying and the BMJ is wrong about the risks being similar, and cyclists are unable to protect themselves in a fall-care to clarify this absurd statement?
I am so pleased that such enlightenment has been forthcoming on this thread... it is desperate, uninformed and ignorant posts that entirely justify the need to inform people as to exactly what helmets can and cannot do
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scotty110788
Active Member
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- Tyne and Wear
not meaning to start another war, but in canny few years when my son old enough (only 10month) and i get him started, I'm sure a helmet would be a necessity until a certain age? if so when would you advice your child they have the option to wear one or not?
caimg
Über Member
Come on bud, selective reading going on here. My comment about falling was in response to an earlier post which suggests peds should wear helmets to protect against trips over uneven paving or kerbs. What on earth makes you think I'd say injuries to peds never happen? I never even suggested that.
If I'm riding at 15-20 mph, less aware of my immediate surroundings than if I'm walking on the pavement, and a car knocks me off, I have no idea which way I will go, if I may hit a static or moving car, if my bike may somehow hit me during / after the fall. Instinct would kick in but there are more things that are out of your control than tripping, probably falling forwards and putting your arms out to cushion your fall.
If I'm riding at 15-20 mph, less aware of my immediate surroundings than if I'm walking on the pavement, and a car knocks me off, I have no idea which way I will go, if I may hit a static or moving car, if my bike may somehow hit me during / after the fall. Instinct would kick in but there are more things that are out of your control than tripping, probably falling forwards and putting your arms out to cushion your fall.
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