Legal in the UK: throttle e-bikes

[classic33]

We shall see what happens but I suspect not much will change in reality in Ireland but we shall see. Here in the UK for example if the police are checking for throttles and find one they have to check;

1) Whether the ebike was sold before 2016
2) Is the ebike a bike fitted with a ebike kit
3) Is the ebike type approved with a certificate
4) Does the throttle only operate up to 6km/h as twist and go
5) Does the throttle operate up to 15.5mph only when the cycle is being peddled.

It's a lot of stuff to remember especially when they have so much else to remember I'm sure. It's just too complicated and throttles should never have been legislated against anyway it is anti-consumer and anti those who are disabled, recovering from injury and elderly etc which is why UK legislators came up with the type approval process which isn't actually type approval but individually tested ebikes with throttles.

It's not just throttles that are being checked for in Ireland since the 20th May.
You'd be well advised to go back and read what the situation actually is in Ireland with regards ebikes since the 20th May this year.
The wording "continuous output", not 250 watt ouput has been made very prominent in the new law

This from one of the UK based suppliers of conversion kits. Are they misleading customers by saying that the throttles are not road legal?
Not in their interests to say that throttles aren't road legal. But they are being honest.

Throttles​

All Swytch kits are compatible with the throttle add-ons that we offer as optional extras. We offer both a twist and thumb-controlled throttle which allows you to control the motor wheel without any need for the PAS (Pedal Assist Sensor) system we provide in the kit.

It is worth bearing in mind that while both varieties of throttle work with our kit, shorter handlebar widths, and some brake levers or gear shifting setups may make it hard to find space to fit a throttle. Our thumb throttle is significantly thinner than the twist option and will therefore be a better choice if space is limited.

Please check your local country's regulations. In the UK and many EU countries, throttles are not road-legal and are only appropriate for use on private roads or land.
https://support.swytchbike.com/hc/en-gb/articles/360007917097-Twist-throttles-vs-thumb-throttles

If your ebike is type approved, has gone through the Motorcycle Single Vehicle Approval, then you'll have been issued with a VIN plate, that has to be fitted to the cycle. They can just look for that, not there it's easy decide.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

As said above, the average Bobby (or Roberta I suppose - what do they prefer???) cannot check for everything

But the basics are simple enough to check and teh complicated stuff can wait

If a bike only has a "throttle" up to somewhere just above walking speed then that is easy enough. If it goes onto running speed then it is clearly illegal
If it goes beyond 15.5 mph (plus a bit I believe ??) then also that can be checked at the roadside
Plates can also be checked

most cheap dongles and the like are also easy to see

Crack down on those simple bits and 90% of the problem will go away which is probably enough to be starting with

Now - how to you crack down on it so that you catch the people causing the problem and not just the law abiding ones that obediently stop which someone asks??

 

[T4tomo]

As said above, the average Bobby (or Roberta I suppose - what do they prefer???) cannot check for everything

But the basics are simple enough to check and teh complicated stuff can wait

If a bike only has a "throttle" up to somewhere just above walking speed then that is easy enough. If it goes onto running speed then it is clearly illegal
If it goes beyond 15.5 mph (plus a bit I believe ??) then also that can be checked at the roadside
Plates can also be checked

most cheap dongles and the like are also easy to see

Crack down on those simple bits and 90% of the problem will go away which is probably enough to be starting with

Now - how to you crack down on it so that you catch the people causing the problem and not just the law abiding ones that obediently stop which someone asks??

order a takeaway and check the e-bike that delivers it......

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

order a takeaway and check the e-bike that delivers it......

To be honest I never see any kind of bike delivering take-aways around here - it is all cars

same around where the grand-kids live
same around my sister-in-law's house

all are in different regions of the region - so it is a bit strange. We used to see electric bikes with massive batteries/motors zooming along the main road and cycle path in Netherton ( and a few time son the Motorway!!!!) but all that seems to have stopped

no idea why

maybe all the bikes have been nicked by the drugs gangs??

 

[bonzobanana]

It's not difficult to remember. They look for the compliance plate/decal that all legal bikes must have before a UK retailer can sell them, and compare it to the laminated card with which theyve been issued. If it doesn't have the plate/decal, or it has a different one, it's not legal regardless of any other consideration. That is quite simple, and if the rider wishes to contest it its up to them to demonstrate its legality to the beak, and without said plate/decal that's nigh on impossible. It may only do 15.5 before cutting out, and may only provided pedal assistance, but without that decal it was never a legal EPAC.

Of course, a bike could be a legal machine with the necessary plate or decal and then have been modified and the average bobby isn't likely to spot it unless they're into cycling themselves.

Qualified vehicle examiners, of which there are few (I was one, had just done the course when I got thrown out of RPU ) will have greater knowledge and know whether or nor a throttle and its function is appropriate to the age of the machine, etc, whether or not there's a naughty dongle, that sort of thing. Outside of the smoke you're unlikely to encounter one by chance, most farces only have 2 ot 3.

All legal ebikes must have? Even those sold before 2016 which didn't have them and still legal to use? What about ebike kits where individual parts are sold like motors, controllers and battery packs and no rating plate is provided and still legal to use according to the DfT. There are lots of exemptions and currently ebike kits are still legal to use as are pre-2016 ebikes. What about hub motor ebikes where the frame has failed and been replaced without the plate/decal on the frame? So all components are the same but the frame decal listing the ebike certification is now no longer on the bike? Bike components fail over time and need replacing. The idea of a perfect ebike as sold in a shop is not realistic especially when it is store bought ebikes i.e. high powered mid-drive ebikes which basically are the worst offenders for being over the the 250W wattage rating.

Anyway the point is the police don't currently rely on the certification/rating plate because it simply won't be available on a lot of legal ebikes. It would be much easier for the police to do simple checks for how the ebike operates and even a current discharge test on the battery to see how much it exceeds the 7A at 36V or 5A at 48V allowed i.e. 250W. Maybe they would set a realistic wattage limit of 600W before they confiscate ebikes. It's utterly pointless anyway relying on a rating plate as such plates can be installed on illegal ebikes. You see rating labels for sale on ebay, aliexpress etc and matched ot the motor fitted. There are lots of motors on ebikes, hub motors or mid-drive motors that are fitted to ebikes some of which are certified and some of which are not despite being the same motors. If all the police checked for was a rating plate/label then illegal ebikes would have them and they could pretty much have ebikes that go 40mph if no other checks are performed.

 

[ebikeerwidnes]

All legal ebikes must have? Even those sold before 2016 which didn't have them and still legal to use? What about ebike kits where individual parts are sold like motors, controllers and battery packs and no rating plate is provided and still legal to use according to the DfT. There are lots of exemptions and currently ebike kits are still legal to use as are pre-2016 ebikes. What about hub motor ebikes where the frame has failed and been replaced without the plate/decal on the frame? So all components are the same but the frame decal listing the ebike certification is now no longer on the bike? Bike components fail over time and need replacing. The idea of a perfect ebike as sold in a shop is not realistic especially when it is store bought ebikes i.e. high powered mid-drive ebikes which basically are the worst offenders for being over the the 250W wattage rating.

Anyway the point is the police don't currently rely on the certification/rating plate because it simply won't be available on a lot of legal ebikes. It would be much easier for the police to do simple checks for how the ebike operates and even a current discharge test on the battery to see how much it exceeds the 7A at 36V or 5A at 48V allowed i.e. 250W. Maybe they would set a realistic wattage limit of 600W before they confiscate ebikes. It's utterly pointless anyway relying on a rating plate as such plates can be installed on illegal ebikes. You see rating labels for sale on ebay, aliexpress etc and matched ot the motor fitted. There are lots of motors on ebikes, hub motors or mid-drive motors that are fitted to ebikes some of which are certified and some of which are not despite being the same motors. If all the police checked for was a rating plate/label then illegal ebikes would have them and they could pretty much have ebikes that go 40mph if no other checks are performed.

WOuld the Police even be able to check on a Bosch battery??
From what I have read it is so locked down that you can;t just stick a multi-meter on it and see what the reading is - and even trying can cause problems if the software starts to wonder what is happening.
I can certainly do it with the stuff on the Carrera folder - the battery has two contacts and thats it - so its simple
but the Bosch one on my Raleigh is "different"

The only tests they can really do are the plate one
and if that can;t be done (see above) then try the motor speed cutoff and "walk-assist"

Not even sure how practical the motor cutoff test is on a road side stop - I presume they would need a roller type thing so not something a random copper can do.

and we still have the problem of how to stop the ones causing the problems

 

[Drago]

A quali'd vehicle examiners will have access to rolling roads and VOSA facilities. They'll know pretty quick if it doesn't cut out st the correct speed, but only a VE is authorised to conduct that sort of testing and the odds of ever meeting one...

 

[classic33]

All legal ebikes must have? Even those sold before 2016 which didn't have them and still legal to use? What about ebike kits where individual parts are sold like motors, controllers and battery packs and no rating plate is provided and still legal to use according to the DfT. There are lots of exemptions and currently ebike kits are still legal to use as are pre-2016 ebikes. What about hub motor ebikes where the frame has failed and been replaced without the plate/decal on the frame? So all components are the same but the frame decal listing the ebike certification is now no longer on the bike? (1)Bike components fail over time and need replacing. The idea of a perfect ebike as sold in a shop is not realistic especially when it is store bought ebikes i.e. high powered mid-drive ebikes which basically are the worst offenders for being over the the 250W wattage rating.

Anyway the point is the police don't currently rely on the certification(2)/rating plate because it simply won't be available on a lot of legal ebikes. It would be much easier for the police to do simple checks for how the ebike operates and even a current discharge test on the battery to see how much it exceeds the 7A at 36V or 5A at 48V allowed i.e. 250W. Maybe they would set a realistic wattage limit of 600W before they confiscate ebikes. It's utterly pointless anyway relying on a rating plate as such plates can be installed on illegal ebikes. You see rating labels for sale on ebay, aliexpress etc and matched ot the motor fitted. There are lots of motors on ebikes, hub motors or mid-drive motors that are fitted to ebikes some of which are certified and some of which are not despite being the same motors. If all the police checked for was a rating plate/label then illegal ebikes would have them and they could pretty much have ebikes that go 40mph if no other checks are performed.

1) If the frame has failed and you replace the frame, you create a new vehicle. And it has to undergo the MSVA, and be issued with a new VIN.
You can't move an engine from one car into another and keep the identity of the old vehicle.
2) The certification will also include a VIN plate issued at the point of passing the MVSA. You do have yours fitted to your bike.

Note that a UK retailer of conversion kits has said on their site, that throttles are not legal on UK roads. Are they wrong, or simply misleading the people who purchase their products?

 

[Punkawallah]

Point of general interest. At last read, only one in 20 crimes result in a charge. Not a prosecution, not a conviction, not a fine or jail time, simply the arrested person being charged.
As such, it seems only of academic interest whether these bikes are illegal or not.

 

[classic33]

Point of general interest. At last read, only one in 20 crimes result in a charge. Not a prosecution, not a conviction, not a fine or jail time, simply the arrested person being charged.
As such, it seems only of academic interest whether these bikes are illegal or not.

How many simply have their bikes seized and leave it at that?

 

[Drago]

Point of general interest. At last read, only one in 20 crimes result in a charge. Not a prosecution, not a conviction, not a fine or jail time, simply the arrested person being charged.
As such, it seems only of academic interest whether these bikes are illegal or not.

That doesn't mean the other 19 haven't faced some other criminal sanction, such as a caution, conditional caution, FPN, or whatever. The list of alternative disposals is endless and changes at the whim ot rhe government and its latest idea to "crackdown" on whatever.

Some of the sanctions can be expensive, and can have serious long term repercussions. Accepting an FPN for no insurance, for example, is probably cheaper than going to court and being fined, but as a dishonesty offence (and by accepting the fine you're admitting the offending) it shows on an enhanced DBS check for all time. Adios to ever working or even volunteering in the public services, with children, or anything requiring an enhanced disclosure.

 

[Dogtrousers]

I just thought I'd throw this random snippet of info into the thread: I had a go on a (UK legal) ebike a few days ago. I rather liked it, but it had a real split personality. It eagerly zoomed up to 25km/h whereupon it turned into a complete grouch, refusing to play any more and turned into a monstrously heavy bike ... until the speed dropped a bit.

 

[Dadam]

1) If the frame has failed and you replace the frame, you create a new vehicle. And it has to undergo the MSVA, and be issued with a new VIN.
You can't move an engine from one car into another and keep the identity of the old vehicle.
2) The certification will also include a VIN plate issued at the point of passing the MVSA. You do have yours fitted to your bike.

Note that a UK retailer of conversion kits has said on their site, that throttles are not legal on UK roads. Are they wrong, or simply misleading the people who purchase their products?

EAPCs (25km/h, no throttle, 250w max continuous power) don't undergo MVSA. They have to have a plate* with manufacturer, motor power, battery voltage. It doesn't have to have the frame number or be a stamped metal plate like a vehicle VIN plate.

* In reality it's a sticker

 

[classic33]

EAPCs (25km/h, no throttle, 250w max continuous power) don't undergo MVSA. They have to have a plate* with manufacturer, motor power, battery voltage. It doesn't have to have the frame number or be a stamped metal plate like a vehicle VIN plate.

* In reality it's a sticker

But if you're using one, under the current regulations, with anything else than a walk assist throttle, it has to go through the MVSA. This is when you acquire the VIN plate, if successful.

 

[Drago]

I just thought I'd throw this random snippet of info into the thread: I had a go on a (UK legal) ebike a few days ago. I rather liked it, but it had a real split personality. It eagerly zoomed up to 25km/h whereupon it turned into a complete grouch, refusing to play any more and turned into a monstrously heavy bike ... until the speed dropped a bit.

The trick is to keep it teetering on the brink at 15 MPH. It can be quite a good game.