HGV Posters In London

[jimboalee]

Oh pooh.

I was going to sketch a little drawing of "The Corridor of Doom", but I went late night shopping.


( I'm determined to get this phrase to catch on )

 

[Rhythm Thief]

What overtime/unsociable hours bonus would a driver expect for delivering in central London at 03:00 ?

Time + 1/2 ? or Double.

None whatever ... there is no overtime any more. I used to get time and a half after 8 hours ... now I'm on a flat rate all the way through. My last job was salaried, so Central London or five minutes up the road was all the same.

 

[Rhythm Thief]

http://news.sky.com/..._Several_People

What's your point? This is hardly an everyday occurence.

 

[asterix]

Jezton
Don't be a knob!

FF I don't think the OP deserved your abuse. His post has produced some good debate and highlighted the problem of HGVs very well I have learnt a lot from some of the subsequent posts. The situation is very far from perfect and as some posters illustrate more can be done about this problem in addition to warning cyclists.

 

[dondare]

Now add a pedestrian barrier and a cycle lane.

 

[asterix]

If we remove HGV's from the inner city, we might as well just wait over night as the city crumbles. Without HGV's there would be at least 3x as many vehicles in the city (probably more). How many vans will it take to carry 1 HGV load? I think the poster is actually quite effective personally.

Boris, the cyling mayor, doesn't necessarily agree with you! He'd like to remove HGV's from central London.

Anyway, I have another idea. Obviously the biggest reason for HGV blind spots is the height of the cab above the engine. What we need is a design that brings the cab nearer cyclist height.

The current design is clearly motivated by cost-saving and profit but what we need is a lorry designed to avoid killing people. It all depends on priorities of course and insead maybe price stickers in shops should include the proportion of lives sacrificed in order to keep the price low.

Anyway, these days I am quite likely to alight from my bicycle and walk on the pavement round the junction instead of sharing lights with buses and lorries.

 

[mgarl10024]

FF I don't think the OP deserved your abuse.

+1

 

[Captain]

I dont think the poster is correct.
My Dad's lorry (very similar in size to the one pictured) has a much better field of vision than we are led to believe in this poster.
The kerb side array of mirrors is simple:
1) Large rear facing - same as a car
2) Convex mirror underneath that one - gives visability to a greater angle (my dad's is actually barely overlapping the main mirror)
3) The Idiot Mirror. - this is set above the window and shows straight down (also concave) an can show any one stupid enough to be there.

In the case of the poster the situation shouldn't arise if the cyclist is observant to the lorry's indicators which (to be MOT worthy) run along the sides of the trailer and cab at several spots aswell as on the rear of the trailer and tractor unit.

I do however think this is a worthwhile effort by the TFL as the more careful around large vehicles the better. If only because getting too close to a car you might end up on the bonnet but too close to a lorry and your dragged under several sets of wheels.

A poster earlier mentioned that the area in front of the cab is where I'd be worried and I am definately in agreement. The only way to show the driver you are there is to raise your hand and the area is really quite large, approx half a car length. I think that is an area that should be addressed by either TFL or the highway code.

 

[Ticktockmy]

I agree that there should be action over having these monsters on urban roads, and that action should be taken over blindspots.

BUT

I don't find any problem at all with the advert. It is providing basic information. There's no question of "thus passing on the responsibility to the potential victims", we all have to take our part of the responsibility for our own well being, and this is helping to provide the information needed for cyclists to do just that. TfL is the advertiser, and as such is taking a small part of its responsibility for road safety.

Even if we did away with motor vehicles and all goods traffic on the roads were horse or human drawn there would still be a need for cyclists to understand how to avoid being killed or injured by carts and drays. (They were, and did need educating).

You and I may already know about the risks from LGVs, both being people who read about cycling related issues. Many of those seeing these adverts will be cyclists who don't understand the risks. If just one person sees that ad and as a result doesn't undertake a lorry then it's a good thing.

Edit: While I was writing this FF posted - I have to say I agree with hin, including his first line.

If you recall, some years ago, the Greater london Council banned HGV entering parts of greater london at certian times, and also introduced a lincenc system

Having driven on of those Monsters, through London many times, I can tell you now, a high number of cyclist, undertake, and cut in fornt of the Truck or buses without thought if they went down, the truck might have problems stopping in time not to flatten them.

I think adverts like that a good as it drives home the problem, and of course it works cos we are discussing it on here..LOL

 

[Fab Foodie]

FF I don't think the OP deserved your abuse. His post has produced some good debate and highlighted the problem of HGVs very well I have learnt a lot from some of the subsequent posts. The situation is very far from perfect and as some posters illustrate more can be done about this problem in addition to warning cyclists.

To be honest I don't think 'Don't be a knob!' constitutes any great abuse. It was a robust riposte to a pretty ranty opening post.

Of course the situation is not perfect, but at least something IS being done by tfl... I don't see why Jezton thought that a bad thing that their posters were everywhere. That struck me as a dumb thing to rant about. Still does.

Of course that doesn't mean more can't be done (and AFAIK IS being done), but we shouldn't criticise a good start, we should applaud it, we have most to loose.

 

[buggi]

2 things:

1. you shouldn't undertake, we all know that.
2. this cycle lane encourages undertaking

if TfL really want to do something, they should ban cycle lanes like this to start with. but i don't see anything else wrong with the poster, i think it's very educational. in fact, i'm gonna ask them if i can use it on our website at work.


as said, we all have a responsibility to each other.

 

[Fab Foodie]

2 things:

1. you shouldn't undertake, we all know that.
2. this cycle lane encourages undertaking

if TfL really want to do something, they should ban cycle lanes like this to start with. but i don't see anything else wrong with the poster, i think it's very educational. in fact, i'm gonna ask them if i can use it on our website at work.


as said, we all have a responsibility to each other.

Agreed, it needs to be nationwide and in every school.

 

[darth vadar]

I wonder if Sat Navs have made the situation worse?

Round here, I (very) often see HGV's travelling down roads where really shouldn't be, and can only think that their Sat Nav may have sent them that way.

Just a thought.

 

[jimboalee]

[quote name=[b]'darth vadar'[/b] timestamp='1289291862' post='1461113']
I wonder if Sat Navs have made the situation worse?

Round here, I (very) often see HGV's travelling down roads where really shouldn't be, and can only think that their Sat Nav may have sent them that way.

Just a thought.
[/quote]

Wait till I get to my Draughting tablet Darth Vader. A little sketch of HGV on the Death Star and C3P0 on a bike up the railings.

 

[Origamist]

Thankfully all post 2000 reg HGVs will not have such a poor mirror array and the driver will be able to see more. I'm also not convinced the nearside mirrors are correctly adjusted/set-up in the TFL mock-up.

As I've said many times before, the problem of cyclists in front of the HGV is not being addressed and this is a major flaw in the campaign, IMO.

There also needs to be more educational work done with HGV dirvers and we need to get more contractors to sign up to the FORS scheme (at the very least).

Looks like I wasn't the only one who thought the image was inaccurate/unrepresentative:

http://www.lcc.org.uk/index.asp?Pageid=2130