EV Owners Thread

[cougie uk]

My neighbour recently bought a hybrid car. He'd decided against an EV because apparently, the cost and trouble of installing a 'three phase charger' ( his words ) at home was too expensive.
?

I've noticed another EV round near me. They've not got a charging point installed - just an external PowerPoint as you might use for Xmas lights. I suppose of you don't do much mileage that'd work out just fine.

 

[CXRAndy]

Interesting. As he's retired and she works from home and as far as I'm aware, they don't travel any particular distance, wonder why he thought that a three phase charger would be needed.
Fancy sales pitch or ignorance due to lack of research on his part I wonder - ?

The rate of charge between single and 3 phase on our model 3.

Single phase 240V 13A 11 miles per hour

Single phase 240V 32A 31miles per hour

3 phase 400V 16A 46miles per hour.

Supercharger upto 1000 miles per hour-normally 125-500

 

[albion]

Slow charging is far better for longevity anyway. Keep your fast charging for emergencies.

 

[icowden]

Does the ID4 have shortcomings?

In short, yes - if compared to a Tesla.

The most notable things are that if you haven't got top spec you don't get the same level of trim as the Y or 3. No electric seats positioning, no seat memory, no electric tail lift.

Outside of not having what you might regard as things that should be standard in a £50k car, the secondary issue is the tech. Compared to Tesla it's just rubbish. The touch screen is slow and clunky and often takes several minutes to connect to Android Auto. When it has connected it's very sluggish. Just moving between menus is slow. It does have adaptive cruise control but it's light years away from Autopilot - it doesn't remember if there is a car in front if that car goes round a corner or over a hill and will just start accelerating. No niceties like Tesla Guardian, no built in dash cam recording even though there are front and rear facing cameras It does have auto-braking for crash avoidance and lane keeping over 40mpg.

Unlike Tesla, the OS is seldom updated. In a year of ownership we have had one minor update that added a Service App and 5 more games to the games app - not that the games app is great. The touch screen isn't good enough for proper games). The touch screen is also very small compared to rivals.

Things I do like over the Tesla - I think it looks nicer as a car. The headlights are fantastic and the seats are more comfortable. You also get a rear shelf which is handy. It is a more traditional car - VW haven't tried to do clever things - for example the power socket is just where the fuel cap would be on an ICE VW - even uses the same "fuel cap" flap.

 

[lazybloke]

I've done the maths before on EV charging; the numbers are surprisingly low.

Annual UK car mileage in 2019 was 7,400 miles or 142 a week. That's only 45 units of energy (assumng 3.5miles/kW and 10% conversion losses).

A single-phase domestic electricity supply can have a 7.4 kW EV charger. so the maths, and it can keep EV battery topped up with less than an hours charging per night.
Adding a 2nd car means the power is shared, but that's still only 2 hours of charging per night.

As long as there's a handy ring main, you could add one or even two 13amp cable chargers and have a total of 4 cars charging. The 13amp cables actually draw a lower current nearer to 10amps, low enough that a single ringmain could charge two EVs simultaneously in only 3 hrs of charging per night.

All of the above is a simplification for indicative purposes only, but the maths is clear that a single phase supply could easily keep 4 EVs charged up. No need to go 3-phase unless you have a stupid number of cars and to very long distances.

Sadly this does all assume you can park near to your charging point; I know this isn't alwas possible.

 

[mikeIow]

In short, yes - if compared to a Tesla.

The most notable things are that if you haven't got top spec you don't get the same level of trim as the Y or 3. No electric seats positioning, no seat memory, no electric tail lift.

Outside of not having what you might regard as things that should be standard in a £50k car, the secondary issue is the tech. Compared to Tesla it's just rubbish. The touch screen is slow and clunky and often takes several minutes to connect to Android Auto. When it has connected it's very sluggish. Just moving between menus is slow. It does have adaptive cruise control but it's light years away from Autopilot - it doesn't remember if there is a car in front if that car goes round a corner or over a hill and will just start accelerating. No niceties like Tesla Guardian, no built in dash cam recording even though there are front and rear facing cameras It does have auto-braking for crash avoidance and lane keeping over 40mpg.

Unlike Tesla, the OS is seldom updated. In a year of ownership we have had one minor update that added a Service App and 5 more games to the games app - not that the games app is great. The touch screen isn't good enough for proper games). The touch screen is also very small compared to rivals.

Things I do like over the Tesla - I think it looks nicer as a car. The headlights are fantastic and the seats are more comfortable. You also get a rear shelf which is handy. It is a more traditional car - VW haven't tried to do clever things - for example the power socket is just where the fuel cap would be on an ICE VW - even uses the same "fuel cap" flap.

Interesting: thanks for sharing.

Must admit, I’d expect comfortable seats and a line if sight speed display in a 50k car too….
Maybe we will hold onto our £36k Kona EV for a few more years 🤪

 

[icowden]

Must admit, I’d expect comfortable seats and a line if sight speed display in a 50k car too….

The ID4 is ideal if you aren't bothered about being at the cutting edge and having the best technology. It's comfortable and easy to drive. I genuinely like it. But you can't get away from the fact that the software is pretty terrible compared to other EVs. One of the other things I like is that although it doesn't have a binnacle per se, it has a non-touch instrument screen which is attached behind the steering wheel, so if you change the position of the wheel up / down / in / out - the instruments move with it.

Also the people in the VW dealerships are really really nice compared to some other dealerships I have been in to (looking at you Audi).

 

[lazybloke]

Interesting: thanks for sharing.

Must admit, I’d expect comfortable seats and a line if sight speed display in a 50k car too….
Maybe we will hold onto our £36k Kona EV for a few more years 🤪

Yeah, @icowden's negative feedback seemed trivial/tolerable, and the positives were good.
As long as a car meets the basic requirements, then anything else can be ignored.

Must admit though, even that Kona price has me scurrying to the 2nd hand listings.
Eg Autotrader has a number of 2021/2022 ID4s. Prices circa £28-32K. Long-rang batteries too.

Nice to see a wider choice of used EVs and at prices much closer to ICE equivalents.
Just that charging infrastructure to sort out now, for those that need it.

 

[gbb]

Yeah, @icowden's negative feedback seemed trivial/tolerable, and the positives were good.
As long as a car meets the basic requirements, then anything else can be ignored.

Must admit though, even that Kona price has me scurrying to the 2nd hand listings.
Eg Autotrader has a number of 2021/2022 ID4s. Prices circa £28-32K. Long-rang batteries too.

Nice to see a wider choice of used EVs and at prices much closer to ICE equivalents.
Just that charging infrastructure to sort out now, for those that need it.

I wouldn't hold my breath re the charging infrastructure. I think many millions of us are going to have to rely on ICE cars for many years . I park on the street , as do all of my street and all the streets around, there's no possibility of drive parking and charging. They're going to have to spend many billions I suspect getting the infrastructure in place.

 

[mikeIow]

I wouldn't hold my breath re the charging infrastructure. I think many millions of us are going to have to rely on ICE cars for many years . I park on the street , as do all of my street and all the streets around, there's no possibility of drive parking and charging. They're going to have to spend many billions I suspect getting the infrastructure in place.

I think you are right. It is quite hard to see how they square that particular challenge off.

For some years I was in a terraced house on a street which was part of a huge number of streets like that.
Lots humans with lots of cars.
Even if (when?) they get chargepoints on ALL the lampposts, that still won’t be enough to get those people in the same luxury position those of us with driveways are in.
Relying on fast charging is one alternative, but it will need the battery tech to reach a point where your 300-mile range can be charged ‘at the pump’ within a few minutes 🧐

Net Zero is a lovely aspiration, but that is where the rubber meets the road 👀

That said, our offspring now work in London: son hates driving anyway & will happily use public transport. Daughter has just moved there after being all over the place, & has decided she no longer needs her car, even though it is ULEZ compliant and her house has parking space (my job will be selling it for her!). She will hire (maybe zipcar) if & when she needs to drive somewhere.
I feel that their generation won’t be as beholden to cars as mine was. Certainly they have far less interest in them 🤷‍♂️

 

[MrGrumpy]

Net Zero is a lovely aspiration, but that is where the rubber meets the road 👀

That said, our offspring now work in London: son hates driving anyway & will happily use public transport. Daughter has just moved there after being all over the place, & has decided she no longer needs her car, even though it is ULEZ compliant and her house has parking space (my job will be selling it for her!). She will hire (maybe zipcar) if & when she needs to drive somewhere.
I feel that their generation won’t be as beholden to cars as mine was. Certainly they have far less interest in them 🤷‍♂️

less cars is the answer ! That seems to be the take , need improved public transport for all .

 

[icowden]

less cars is the answer ! That seems to be the take , need improved public transport for all .

Surely fewer cars is the answer....

 

[lazybloke]

If you extrapolate the number of BEVs now, to all cars needing to be BEV via circa 2050, it shows an absolutely enormous expansion of charging capacity is required; no more so than in the area of kerbside charging.

If I didn't have a driveway now (and wanted to drive in the future) I'd strongly consider moving house.

 

[icowden]

If you extrapolate the number of BEVs now, to all cars needing to be BEV via circa 2050, it shows an absolutely enormous expansion of charging capacity is required; no more so than in the area of kerbside charging.

Absolutely. if you look to Brighton, Westminster, Portsmouth, EV chargers are being installed in their droves.

1. Westminster, London: 2,158
2. Southwark, London: 1,726
3. Coventry, West Midlands: 1,223
4. Brent, Outer London: 814
5. Wandsworth, London: 725
6. Kensington and Chelsea: 696
7. Merton, Outer London: 676
8. Hammersmith and Fulham: 599
9. Leeds, West Yorkshire: 514
10. Milton Keynes, South East: 504
11. Birmingham, West Midlands: 472
12. Brighton and Hove, South East: 424
13. Liverpool, Merseyside: 411
14. Cornwall, South West: 408
15. Glasgow City, Scotland: 342

As of July 2023 there were 44020 public chargers in the UK of which 57% are fast. 19% of those are rapid.

 

[FishFright]

If you extrapolate the number of BEVs now, to all cars needing to be BEV via circa 2050, it shows an absolutely enormous expansion of charging capacity is required; no more so than in the area of kerbside charging.

If I didn't have a driveway now (and wanted to drive in the future) I'd strongly consider moving house.

What an opportunity to make an absolute fortune. If I was long term investing right now I'd put a decent chunk into whoever can see that not as a reason to keep ICE's but a great business.