Energy bill increases

[Regular.Cyclist]

Sorry not heard anything about this & at the risk of straying into the dark place, they intend to cap everybody at £2.5K?

If that is the case where is the incentive to get people to think about their usage & make changes, although I appreciate £2.5K is a huge jump for some.

The £2.5k is likely to be the cost for an average household.

That will give a cost per unit rate and standing charge against what bills will be calculated.

 

[Alex321]

Sorry not heard anything about this & at the risk of straying into the dark place, they intend to cap everybody at £2.5K?

If that is the case where is the incentive to get people to think about their usage & make changes, although I appreciate £2.5K is a huge jump for some.

They won't be capping anybody at £2.5K.

Talking about a cap at £2.5K is shorthand for saying the KwH rate will be capped at a level which means the average bill will be £2.5K.

It annoys me a bit that people keep bandying about these figures as though they are the actual cap - leading to misunderstandings such as yours.

 

[jowwy]

They won't be capping anybody at £2.5K.

Talking about a cap at £2.5K is shorthand for saying the KwH rate will be capped at a level which means the average bill will be £2.5K.

It annoys me a bit that people keep bandying about these figures as though they are the actual cap - leading to misunderstandings such as yours.

mine will be a hell of a lot lower than £2.5k.....and even less after fitting solar in october. But yes its the average bill, i think we already know that.

 

[Alex321]

mine will be a hell of a lot lower than £2.5k.....and even less after fitting solar in october. But yes its the average bill, i think we already know that.

We should already know it, but the way the figure keeps being bandied around, many people don't realise that and think the actual cap is that much per year, rather than being a per-unit cap. Even in this thread, which I think are mostly reasonably intelligent people, we have seen a couple of examples

 

[presta]

If that is the case where is the incentive to get people to think about their usage & make changes

There isn't any, that's the problem, and it's not new.

Because there's such a large level of wealth inequality, we've had a situation for years in which the poor struggle to heat the home whilst the rich can afford to waste fuel, and you can't fix that with a single rate tariff where the 10,000th kWh costs the same as the 100th kWh, because attending to one problem exacerbates the other. What's needed is a progressive tariff so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, but cripplingly expensive to be profligate, but what we actually have is a regressive system, where the standing charge means a light user is paying proportionally more than a heavy user: the rich and profligate are subsidised by the poor and frugal. The price per kWh needs to rise in bands according to how much you're using, the same way income tax does, and the standing charge needs ditching.

 

[nickyboy]

They won't be capping anybody at £2.5K.

Talking about a cap at £2.5K is shorthand for saying the KwH rate will be capped at a level which means the average bill will be £2.5K.

It annoys me a bit that people keep bandying about these figures as though they are the actual cap - leading to misunderstandings such as yours.

Wot he said

The issue will be how this "debt" will be held and how it will be ultimately repaid. My understanding is that the utility suppliers will supply at (say) 25p per KwHr, even when the fair price in the open market should be (say) 45p per KwHr. The suppliers will be allowed to borrow from the Government (ie you and me) to make up this shortfall of 20p per KwHr. As and when the open market price falls to say 15p per KwHr, the utility suppliers will charge 15p plus a 10p surcharge (so 25p per KwHr) and use this surcharge to repay the borrowings from the government

So we will all be paying less than the spike price but we will all be creating a debt and that debt will be repaid via inflated prices when the true price settles back to normal levels

As I mentioned upthread, this is a fundamental shift For many years the average price for energy was £1,000 per household. It will be £2500 (or whatever number is chosen) for many years to come. So energy saving devices become more economic, renewable sources become more economic, people will have to get used to being less profligate with their energy consumption

 

[Fab Foodie]

Average price cap unit rates
Customer with typical usage, paying by direct debit*​

	Last price cap period (1 April - 30 September 2022)	Current price cap period (1 October - 31 December 2022)
Electricity	£0.28 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.45	£0.52 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.46
Gas	£0.07 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.27	£0.15 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.28

 

[Milkfloat]

Wot he said

The issue will be how this "debt" will be held and how it will be ultimately repaid. My understanding is that the utility suppliers will supply at (say) 25p per KwHr, even when the fair price in the open market should be (say) 45p per KwHr. The suppliers will be allowed to borrow from the Government (ie you and me) to make up this shortfall of 20p per KwHr. As and when the open market price falls to say 15p per KwHr, the utility suppliers will charge 15p plus a 10p surcharge (so 25p per KwHr) and use this surcharge to repay the borrowings from the government

So we will all be paying less than the spike price but we will all be creating a debt and that debt will be repaid via inflated prices when the true price settles back to normal levels

As I mentioned upthread, this is a fundamental shift For many years the average price for energy was £1,000 per household. It will be £2500 (or whatever number is chosen) for many years to come. So energy saving devices become more economic, renewable sources become more economic, people will have to get used to being less profligate with their energy consumption

I don't think it has been announced how this will work - the latest rumours just seem to be general taxation, rather than future use. General taxation may help the less well off but does not do a huge amount to incentivise less usage.

 

[MrGrumpy]

We live way outside London, lovely house + plot we moved into 6 years ago before our daughter was born. I've just taken up some additional borrowing for building works before interst rates shot up.

Essentially roughly speaking £450k mortgage debt, repayment period is 15 years as I want to clear the mortgage way before retirement. Fixed at 2% for the next 10 years.....You can work out the figures, but let's just say £750/month isnt going to quite cover it .

Fffs choked out n my champers . Thought I had a big mortgage when you moved into this pad !! Ooft

 

[MrGrumpy]

Average price cap unit rates​

Customer with typical usage, paying by direct debit*​

	Last price cap period (1 April - 30 September 2022)	Current price cap period (1 October - 31 December 2022)
Electricity	£0.28 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.45	£0.52 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.46
Gas	£0.07 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.27	£0.15 per kWh Daily standing charge: £0.28

That’s the end for a lot of folk and worse to come in Jan if left alone !!

 

[MrGrumpy]

There isn't any, that's the problem, and it's not new.

Because there's such a large level of wealth inequality, we've had a situation for years in which the poor struggle to heat the home whilst the rich can afford to waste fuel, and you can't fix that with a single rate tariff where the 10,000th kWh costs the same as the 100th kWh, because attending to one problem exacerbates the other. What's needed is a progressive tariff so that it's affordable to use a sustainable amount of fuel, but cripplingly expensive to be profligate, but what we actually have is a regressive system, where the standing charge means a light user is paying proportionally more than a heavy user: the rich and profligate are subsidised by the poor and frugal. The price per kWh needs to rise in bands according to how much you're using, the same way income tax does, and the standing charge needs ditching.

So what about businesses!? They use can use a lot more and I’m not talking even factories here . Anyway this is defo heading into NACA territory

 

[Deleted member 26715]

So what about businesses!? They use can use a lot more and I’m not talking even factories here . Anyway this is defo heading into NACA territory

It was nice whilst it lasted, must be a slow day over on the dark side

 

[jowwy]

Anyway lets get back on topic……so the naca mob dont destroy it.

Anyone else have ideas on reducing bills, other than a new kettle or 3

 

[SpokeyDokey]

Anyway lets get back on topic……so the naca mob dont destroy it.

Anyone else have ideas on reducing bills, other than a new kettle or 3

Has anyone suggested hooking a Turbo Trainer up to a generator yet?

 

[Regular.Cyclist]

I’ve become much more aware of my usage since getting my smart meters fitted. I guess that’s the idea!

Generally, with all the background stuff on, it sits at 4p per hour for electricity. I have turned off a Raspberry Pi )with a TV tuner HAT), an Amazon Echo Dot in the dining room, an Amazon Echo in the spare bedroom, a Mac Mini (that functions as a media serve) and a double HDD dock which stores all the media in the two attached 6Tb drives. Each now only get switched on when we plan to use it.

I try turning off my Mesh network and going back to using the router WiFi but that was a step too far and it has gone back on.

I didn’t need to do that from a financial basis but feel it is worthwhile from an environmental perspective.