Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
Our local electricity company was subsidising electric scooters for a while, with their Logo on them. Another local company now has a 'scooter share' programme working in the city.
Electric car ownership
- Thread starter Denis99
- Start date
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Our local electricity company was subsidising electric scooters for a while, with their Logo on them. Another local company now has a 'scooter share' programme working in the city.
Andy in Germany
Guru
- Location
- Rottenburg am Neckar
This just showed up in my news feed.
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/£167m-scottish-government-funding-electric-vehicle-charging-points-and-green-buses
Electric chargers are common here, as are electric smart cars, although that's because Smart cars are made here.
https://www.holyrood.com/articles/news/£167m-scottish-government-funding-electric-vehicle-charging-points-and-green-buses
Electric chargers are common here, as are electric smart cars, although that's because Smart cars are made here.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
[QUOTE 5371151, member: 9609"]the market is for stupidly over powered machines (+130bhp) they use disproportionally high amounts of energy so I would guess the practicable amounts of batteries they could carry would probably give them unusablyI imagine short ranges - [/QUOTE]
I used to have a Honda VTR1000SP bike, the tank was so small it made going out riding no fun as I was always having to plan around fuel stops, I could just get from home to Scarborough (100 Mile) without a stop but the last 10 miles were scary.
I used to have a Honda VTR1000SP bike, the tank was so small it made going out riding no fun as I was always having to plan around fuel stops, I could just get from home to Scarborough (100 Mile) without a stop but the last 10 miles were scary.
But with technological advances, along with possible obsolescence, that depreciation may not slow? I only do short distances, including car & scooter/motorbike, I do about 5000 miles a year, I am ideal for an electric vehicle, but my car is will increase in value to cover all running costs, likewise my 1962 scooter, and my daily 125cc commuter with rock solid residual value does 100mpg+ with all in running costs last year (fuel, insurance, tax, mot & maintenance) of £270. I'd happily go electric if it wasn't going to cost me a fortune!
Anyway.......... road congestion, seismic change in attitude needed, environmental concerns........why are (regular short journey) electric car drivers choosing to be inside the same old metal oversized cages instead of using electric scooters?
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Isn't that being a little optimistic & think about all that 2 stroke unburnt oil being kicked onto the enviroment
I was interested in the upcoming Vespa Elettrica, metal bodied, classic looks and a 62 mile range, that would last me 4/5 days...then I read it can only do can only do 30mph, that'd be dangerous on my commute. 45mph and I'd have seriously considered it, oh wait a mo', it's expected to be nearing £4000.............
The pollution for the Vespa is insignificant as it only does a few 100 miles per annum, the RV125 does that mpg, week in week out.
D
Deleted member 26715
Guest
Sorry I misread, I thought you were claiming your 1962 Vespa/Lambretta did 100mpg
A couple of (serious) questions.
1. If I had an EV and was driving, say, to cornwall (350 miles)......am I correct in thinking I would have to recharge every 80 miles eg 4 times and rach time would take 4 hours ?
2. As we are thinking of changing cars I was thinking hybrid........but they do seem extremely expensive compared to the petrol equivilent. Am I correct in that?
1. If I had an EV and was driving, say, to cornwall (350 miles)......am I correct in thinking I would have to recharge every 80 miles eg 4 times and rach time would take 4 hours ?
2. As we are thinking of changing cars I was thinking hybrid........but they do seem extremely expensive compared to the petrol equivilent. Am I correct in that?
OP
OP
Denis99
Über Member
- Location
- South Wales
Reply to MarkF.
I have been a motorcyclist as well as a cyclist for most of my life and had all sorts of scooters and motorbikes. First vehicle ever was a Lambretta Li125 !
However, I no longer own a motorbike or scooter.
Mainly due to a number of deaths to my friends with motorcycle accidents. All my friends that have been killed were experienced motorcyclists .
It has just taken the enthusiasm away for me. Although I would like another scooter.
Nearly all our journeys are with me and my wife in the car, but you are correct that most cars have just one occupant in them regardless of how they are powered.
Dave7
Yes, the Leaf with the 24kw battery needs a charge after about 75 miles.
The newer models of all electric car manufacturers are increasing the battery size , hence range.
4 miles per kw is very economical even at 16p per kwh.
100 miles for £4
I have been a motorcyclist as well as a cyclist for most of my life and had all sorts of scooters and motorbikes. First vehicle ever was a Lambretta Li125 !
However, I no longer own a motorbike or scooter.
Mainly due to a number of deaths to my friends with motorcycle accidents. All my friends that have been killed were experienced motorcyclists .
It has just taken the enthusiasm away for me. Although I would like another scooter.
Nearly all our journeys are with me and my wife in the car, but you are correct that most cars have just one occupant in them regardless of how they are powered.
Dave7
Yes, the Leaf with the 24kw battery needs a charge after about 75 miles.
The newer models of all electric car manufacturers are increasing the battery size , hence range.
4 miles per kw is very economical even at 16p per kwh.
100 miles for £4
steveindenmark
Legendary Member
Norway is the only country I have been to where supermarkets sell cucumbers in quarters, because they are so expensive. So you can drive to the store in your subsidised electric car. But once there you cannot afford to buy anything.
Electric_Andy
Heavy Metal Fan
- Location
- Plymouth
Well done OP. For every post like this, there is the opinion that "e-cars use more energy to produce" or "you're just taking pollution out of the city and moving it to power stations and factories".
but in your case you've gone whole hog and are making use of solar. And as you say, excuses for range etc are poor. It can still be done with a little more planning if you're on a family holiday. The only thing I worry about is the government dragging it's heels when they can still make so much from fuel tax. And I won't mind betting that quick charge stations will rocket up in price when people start relying on them
but in your case you've gone whole hog and are making use of solar. And as you say, excuses for range etc are poor. It can still be done with a little more planning if you're on a family holiday. The only thing I worry about is the government dragging it's heels when they can still make so much from fuel tax. And I won't mind betting that quick charge stations will rocket up in price when people start relying on them
OP
OP
Denis99
Über Member
- Location
- South Wales
See the attached, shows 2018, but is actually a rolling year for the last 12 months.
The reason I commute by scooter or motorbike is so that I don't spend so much time queuing in my terribly congested commute. What was an hour is now 15/20 minutes. And because it's simply a commute to work and back, I want to do it as cheap as possible, if an electric scooter was cheaper then I'd buy one, but both my two wheelers are far cheaper for me to run. I forgot to add that the Vespa doesn't require an MOT or tax.
I'm no luddite, I tried the electric bike route for a while and I'd definitely have an electric car if they made financial sense to me but at the moment there seems to be an imbalance in the market skewed perhaps by the pcp deals. Cars are so cheap now that an average earner, family man can buy a 2009/2010 Focus for £2k, with bit of luck he'll get 5 years problem free motoring and be left with few hundred as residual value, that's cheap transportation!
There is an Tesla outlet in a Leeds centre arcade, often with a display model outside, but I've never seen one on the roads, however I went to Amsterdam in the spring and it was full of Tesla taxis, their infrastructure must be way ahead. I'd like this.
@dennis, Sorry for coming across as negative, I've enjoyed your posts and found them illuminating, now that the range problem is pretty much solved for most then it's just the financial one left.
I still think it's scooters that would free up cities and if something like this was UK a road legal, I'd buy one.
I still think it's scooters that would free up cities and if something like this was UK a road legal, I'd buy one.
OP
OP
Denis99
Über Member
- Location
- South Wales
One way I have viewed EV car ownership is that it is a little different from an internal combustion car ownership.
Petrol or diesel, you have servicing, and what boils down to consumables that can be quite expensive.
Most modern cars aren’t really home mechanic friendly.
Here goes.
Dual Mass Flywheel
Diesel particulate filter
Oil
Oil filter
Cam belt every 4 years or so.
Had the ERG valve go after three years on my diesel.
Plus you have to keep buying expensive fuel , compared to cheaper electricity.
We were driving about 8,000 miles a year. This was burning up about £900 a year literally. Say £250 for normal servicing, without anything extra.
Call it £1100.
Same 8,000 miles a year. Electricity cost ( even if you bought all your energy from the grid at £0.16p),£320 !
Servicing, even at a main dealer is about £120 per year.
None of the above potential issues with running the car ever.
Call it £450 a year.
The older a car gets, the more servicing it requires, even the brakes last around 80,000 miles due to the regen braking.
Apart from the environmental side, if your driving short distances and have access to home charging, then you can save a lot.
Agree about the high cost at new, but there are EV cars used at about the same price I paid.
Understand that not everyone can afford to splash out the cash, I couldn’t for a long time, three children and family commitments.
Petrol or diesel, you have servicing, and what boils down to consumables that can be quite expensive.
Most modern cars aren’t really home mechanic friendly.
Here goes.
Dual Mass Flywheel
Diesel particulate filter
Oil
Oil filter
Cam belt every 4 years or so.
Had the ERG valve go after three years on my diesel.
Plus you have to keep buying expensive fuel , compared to cheaper electricity.
We were driving about 8,000 miles a year. This was burning up about £900 a year literally. Say £250 for normal servicing, without anything extra.
Call it £1100.
Same 8,000 miles a year. Electricity cost ( even if you bought all your energy from the grid at £0.16p),£320 !
Servicing, even at a main dealer is about £120 per year.
None of the above potential issues with running the car ever.
Call it £450 a year.
The older a car gets, the more servicing it requires, even the brakes last around 80,000 miles due to the regen braking.
Apart from the environmental side, if your driving short distances and have access to home charging, then you can save a lot.
Agree about the high cost at new, but there are EV cars used at about the same price I paid.
Understand that not everyone can afford to splash out the cash, I couldn’t for a long time, three children and family commitments.
