Discrimination and Loss of "freedom of movement" for poor and disabled

[Cyclopathic]

There are none so deaf as those who will not hear.

 

[classic33]

I do kind of think the op has got a bit of a point regarding the cycling on the pavement issue, however I'm struggling to find the words to say it properly!

Some disabled people choose to use a standard, typical wheelchair.

This might sound a bit politically incorrect, but when people see disabled people / people in wheel chairs, they feel sympathetic / sorry for them. Most people would give way to them on the pathway & in supermarkets, and offer their seat on a bus or train.

Other disabled people, like the op, choose to use a bike or an adapted bike/trike. I doubt these people get the same treatment as the ones who choose to use a standard wheelchair.


So I suppose what I'm actually asking is:

At what point (in the eyes of pedestrians / the law / train operators) does a wheelchair become a bike?

From what he's said a wheelchair isn't required. He walks up stairs with a 350lb load. Most people I know who have to use wheelchairs, would not be able to manage that.
His dis-ability is loss of hearing, so assuming that is the only dis-ability preventing him from doing anything. I'm going to say a wheelchair would not be a requirement, in this case.

He sees riding in the gutter as the poor mans option. Almost as though when he's on the bike, on the pavement, he's above those who are having to walk. They then become the poor, the excluded. He is able to go places they cannot at speeds they cannot. He is taking road traffic problems onto the pavement because he is unable to cycle on the road. For six years he was allowed to do this(law not enforced), someone complained & the police acted on that complaint.

Any adaption he has made to his bike has been to enable load carrying, not to ensure his safety whilst riding on the pavements. Something he seems quite happy to do. Not so happy at being told to ride the same bike on the road because other people, who drive then put him in danger/are out to kill him. He's willing to the same on the footpaths, but not so pleased at having to be scond best, at best, on the road.

What he hasn't mentioned, yet is
Was he born deaf?
Did it come on over a period of time?
Did it come on sudden?

Lest anyone feel I'm asking personal information, they have a direct bearing on how people would perceive it.
Me. Born with Epilepsy, so it didn't come on over a period of time or sudden. Head injury or brain damage. Stigma of being different at school was there(it will always be there). Peolpe are afraid of what they don't know about, just as the OP is about riding in the road.
I've worked almost since leaving school. The fact that I'm different(epilepsy) hasn't slowed me down/stopped me. If anything its been a case of "prove I can't do it". Disabled Rider is working the other way round. "I'm dis-abled, I'm not able to work, therefore I am not employable". 29 job applications & turned down on them all, whoopee! I'd have had that before dinner time. I stopped counting after the 1000 mark.

I too have to declare the epilepsy to any prospective employer, I don't & someone else is injured as a result, I can be held liable, put up with others pre-conceived ideas of the condition,
http://www.intercom.net/npo/eaes/Myths.htm
I've worked with heavy machinery, VDU's, computers. Everything I was told I'd never do & some I'd been told I would never be allowed to do. Driving is the only one that has yet to be done. Getting a licence requires signing off as clear by a doctor. I worked round that, two feet, two wheels, three wheel & four wheels.
I've been carried out of the workplace, into the back of an ambulance, blue & not breathing on a Friday. Back in on the following Monday. Or out of work with a Stanley knife in one hand (left & I'm right handed) that they were unable to get off me safely.


As for the last question why not look at it the other way round
At what point (in the eyes of pedestrians / the law / train operators) does a bike/trike become a wheelchair? Christiana made a "bike" (with only the one wheel) that attached to the rear or a wheel, which lifted the smaller front wheels of the ground thus converting the two into a trike
http://www.mountaintrike.co.uk/

Simplest advice that can be given is get of your backside & stop blaming others for what you cannot do. But then advice/help isn't what he's looking for. What he wants is someone to tell him his right. He is being exculded, discriminated against. As a result they will then be reinforcing his own views.

For those who mentioned Red Dwarf. Remember the one where they were in Starbug caught in a swamp. They had to get Rimmers self esteem up so they could escape.

Again ,sorry for the long post.

 

[roadrash]

i cant see there being a long queue to tell him hes right ,but it dont matter HE believes hes right

 

[classic33]

Disabled rider, please read.

If you want exclusion. I am not allowed to fly on any of the airlines over here, as I represent an "unacceptable risk to the crew, plane & passengers"(in that order) whilst the plane is in the air. Thats exclusion for you. Blatant and outright!

 

[Longshot]

If I'm reading the live film feeds correctly, he'll be back online within the next five minutes as he's just arrived home again.

 

[disabled rider]

May I just check that I'm reading this right, you've been to/had 29 job interviews and because you have been unsuccessful you've decided you're unemployable and given up? There are people that will go for many many more interviews and send off hundreds of applications taking knock back after knock back, yet they keep on doing it until they find something because sometimes that's what you've got to do.

It wasn't about being unsuccessful, If I am unsuccessful through competition for a position , I get up and try again. and again , again.
Let me try to explain this yet again and expand on what I had already written about the issue.
OK this was back, when the economy was booming before the crash. 29 jobs over 3 months were all that were available that I was qualified for. Example of job not qualified for Semi trucker. I can not apply for this if I am not qualified. THE MAIN THING is how I was being turned down, when I WAS QUALIFIED FOR OR OVERQUALIFIED. I have gone into detail how the process works. ON BEING TURNED DOWN BASED ON IMPAIRMENTS. I wasn't turned down because it was filled or i couldn't do the job or bad attitude or lack of work ethics, I do not talk too much either, remember hearing impairment. etc. AS SOON AS I MENTION IMPAIRMENTS WHICH I AM UNDER LAW, REQUIRED TO TELL THEM, the interview is OVER. The excuse they give me, position was filled. If it was filled, why was the sign up for weeks on end after the interview, when the position I applied for was the only one available at the business, and why did the interview take place, if the position was already filled? It is wasted money, interviewing a person you have no intention to hire before they walk in, what kind of business wastes money on interviews for position already filled, that is NOT corporate?.

Here in the states, it is legally established loophole, to use "POSITION FILLED" as a LEGAL means to discriminate. We have case law to support this. I have talked to several EMPLOYMENT lawyers about this. I have no legal recourse to fight it. In a situation Like this you become unemployable. Getting training to be a semi truck driver is out, I can't drive at night, because I get severe vertigo where the world is spinning rapidly from either right to left or left to right, This increases risks of accidents.

Trust me I am not making this stuff up I really wish I was. It is not an excuse not to work either, I loved working, I was a workaholic. I have employment awards before I had "heart surgery." <--- was the final nail in the employment coffin. Anyone who has had heart surgery, gets elevated to "HIGH RISK" on workers insurance for workers comp. It is not necessarily written in to the contract, It is exchanged by word of mouth, so no documentation, so they don't get sued for discrimination, because the documentation would have been proof of singling out of particular people for exclusion. <--- This is one of the reasons people with severe heart disease get permanent disability in the states. In my case the surgery corrected a defect, So I am not diagnosed that way under the SSA rules. My problem is the general population hear heart surgery they jump to the worse possible conclusion that I am a walking time bomb that will die on the job,(their body language gives it away, when I mention heart surgery)) which would cause insurance to skyrocket.

One of the employers I had worked for , was frank with me about the insurance side of it, I wasn't aware of it till They(2 people in conference) explained it to me, only reason they told me, was because I had signed a "AS WILL EMPLOYMENT contract" I could not sue, for any reason what so ever, so they did not fear my finding out, nor fear retaliation, I was hauled by ambulance from this employer, week or so before the heart surgery. I had to step down from supervisor or be fired out right, Did not matter if I was capable of fulfilling the job, which I was. My Heart impairment was the reason for the demotion/ eventual quitting(They openly admitted it to my face in the conference Quote what I was told after the fact::" We are glad you came to your senses to volunteer stepping down from crew supervisor. If you had not, we were going to fire you on the basis, we feel your too high risk, and (may not*) be able to perform your job as supervisor, .with your "heart issue") and this lead to eventual quitting of the job. By the way, it was a government Job. "Minnesota Conservation Corps" This Link is an off-shoot of "MCC" http://www.serveminnesota.org/programs/conservation-corps-minnesota I was part of MCC during its transition years to what is now on the previous link. * The "may not" meant they had no proof, it would impact my performance, decision was made before we could even find out, if it was even going to be an issue. It was a "fear knee jerk" response and exclusion of a sick person (FACT by their own admission). MCC is one of the places I received employment Awards, (as being the best corps man in our region"s" ) I still have the plaque. I had my dreams smashed here. I had finally gotten my foot in the door for my dream employment, only to have the door slammed in my face. Are you familiar with "grizzly Adams"? He was my role model growing up. Little factoid from a fan site not mine. http://www.shevin.org/Grizzly_Adams_DVD_with_Don_Haggerty.html

Point is, when determining if a person is employable or not, It is a case by case basis, You CAN NOT apply a "blanket standard" or "MOLD" to determining if a person is employable or not.

Now really this is enough on the employment issue This is completely off topic and besides the point of the thread. I am going to respond to another person who I promised to respond too before I left.

Disabled rider.

 

[disabled rider]

Trouble these days is you don't know who may watching what you're doing. Get a book/film out of a library, a record is made of who it went to & when. Similar record when its returned. Pay for something & record is made, when, where, how much & what for. There is no real way round this system.

Use a computer, connected to the internet? Maybe its not safe.
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1960971/pg1

You are also hiding behind your curtains(off shade of yellow, with a floral pattern in light green) on the 2nd floor flat, which is SW facing. You have complained that the lift does not work. As a result you are carrying your bike & sometimes 200 pound load up three flights of stairs. You dislike this, and feel that it is discrimination on the grounds of being poor. If you were rich you could live somewhere else, better!, where the lifts work. You then would not have to walk up stairs. Presumably walking up & down stairs is only for the poor, in your book.
Note that in the UK
A flat is an apartment in the US. The 1st floor is the ground floor. Regional variations."
Is that "off-yellow", the result of tobacco smoke by any chance?

Oh and by the way, if you read what you claim to have reposted, you'll find very little matches your opening post. You don't know what those on here are qualified in, so please do not make unfounded statements, unless you are able to back them up, with proof. You want us to back up what we are saying, you are now being told to do the same. After all you don't want to exclude anyone, do you?

Were you trying to describe where I live? too bad not even close I had admitted to living in a "TOWER" you know buildings with elevators

 

[Oldspice]

So people who have had heart surgery/epilepsy can no get jobs? Maybe the company's just didn't like you,it's there choice who they wish to employ and if your neighbours complain about your BO.....

 

[disabled rider]

I honestly do not think he had a plot to lose.

As others have pointed out, if he doesn't like what you are saying, you are wrong. And he starts off down a new tack.
What it comes down to having read all that he's posted is:
$500 is a cheap bike. He doesn't want one from a third world country.
He is poor, hence the low amount he has spent on the bike.
He has this idea that only the rich can afford to drive. Anyone who doesn't drive is being excluded as they are poor. He doesn't mind the idea of moving to another continent, where he could be one of the rich(elite)."Live like a king" . So long as its not a third world country.
Everyone is out to get him. Be it because he is dis-abled & unable to see past the dis-abilty. Also because he's poor
Because he is deaf he is unemployable. No-one but him alone in this world is deaf to the same extent.
We don't know what he's talking about. Question is, does he?
He is not an irrational person. We just think he is.
He broke the law, got caught & doesn't like the fact he got caught.

ok all I can say you misunderstood what been talking about, and manipulating what I been saying into something entirely different.

Where have I EVER SAID EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME? in context to myself. I think you have some comprehension issues, when reading my posts. With this suspicion, I forgive you for the slight. So long as you stop implying I have said something I have not.

in the future ask for clarification instead to specific points I have made, This post is about as bad as oldspice's post when it came to analyzing me.

 

[disabled rider]

I assumed that he was telling the truth with regards where he was posting from. It was his use of words that got me thinking english was not his first language. Thats where the African & Eastern European came from.


Whats to stop more than one person using the same computer. Currently in a Library, writing this.

IP check doesn't work if your on a roving dynamic IP address. Our police and FBI have claimed frustration about this because it makes it hard to track specific people when dealing with sting operations/ investigation , this came out , when they were caught using illegal tracking software to spy on its citizens, I reset my IP address regularly, To avoid harassment by individuals that get off on harassing people.

 

[mcshroom]

o
Where have I EVER SAID EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET ME? in context to myself. I think you have some comprehension issues, when reading my posts. With this suspicion, I forgive you for the slight. So long as you stop implying I have said something I have not.

IP check doesn't work if your on a roving dynamic IP address. Our police and FBI have claimed frustration about this because it makes it hard to track specific people when dealing with sting operations/ investigation , this came out , when they were caught using illegal tracking software to spy on its citizens, I reset my IP address regularly, To avoid harassment by individuals that get off on harassing people.

hmm, not all out to get you then

 

[Oldspice]

You do know that your computer has a unique number that identity's itself on the net, just like a mobile phone has a unique number regardless of what sim card is used. As long as you use the same computer you are trackable regardless of IP address

 

[Pat "5mph"]

Disabled rider, please read.

If you want exclusion. I am not allowed to fly on any of the airlines over here, as I represent an "unacceptable risk to the crew, plane & passengers"(in that order) whilst the plane is in the air. Thats exclusion for you. Blatant and outright!

I never knew that
That's discrimination for sure. Any of us could get sick on a plane, so what?

 

[disabled rider]

My poor brain can't keep track of all the information in this thread anymore. The bit about not being fit enough to ride the longer way to the deer hunting area but being able to drag around an animal that typically weighs more than an average man and like everyone else not being allowed to ride a bicycle on the pavement but not explaining why his disability prevents normal road cycling.

I was curious about the amount of meat you'd get from a deer too, it looks like it varies a lot but after dragging say a 100kg deer corpse up the apartment stairwell (which the neighbours must love), apparently you'd be looking in the region of 45kg of edible meat or about 180 steaks Poor Bambis

I will simplify it for you, heart surgery, 20 miles I am fine, 40+ I may have problems. Use of 52 will bring that mileage in to the 20 mile range. using back roads I could go 50-100 miles to get to that area or similar area. Now I am in trouble. I am still capable of getting there If I take the direct route. Telling me I can only use back roads, which are even more dangerous, with no shoulders and windy roads not to mention total distance that compromises my health. I am capable of hunting if the policy is modified. I am not capable of it, if the policy stays the same. It is the POLICY that disabled me. NOT my impairments.

Think about the person in wheel chair and the second floor example i used early on, with no elevator. But the person was capable of participating in the meeting.

I won't need to drag deer far, I take the trailer to the deer or near the deer out of respect to other hunters. I can also pace myself little bit at time, it is not a race unlike like a job is, where time is money.

I can tell you fell for false info by other poster about where I live. I am in tower with elevators, we have quite a few tower apartments in the states. I don't ever have to lift the full weight of the deer. I don't have to lift it into the trailer either you drag it into it you only have to apply a fraction of the force then.. I could move a 300lb log using leverage by myself with little effort, even after heart surgery. use your brain to problem solve..

 

[disabled rider]

You do know that your computer has a unique number that identity's itself on the net, just like a mobile phone has a unique number regardless of what sim card is used. As long as you use the same computer you are trackable regardless of IP address

If this was true then the FBI and Police wouldn't be complaining.