Discrimination and Loss of "freedom of movement" for poor and disabled

Is exclusion and discrimination of the poor and disabled in regards to cycling a serious problem?

  • yes

    Votes: 10 12.0%
  • no

    Votes: 29 34.9%
  • I am ignorant on the issue (lack of knowledge, not dumb)

    Votes: 16 19.3%
  • your trolling

    Votes: 19 22.9%
  • your not trolling

    Votes: 1 1.2%
  • They are a danger and should not be allowed (for what ever reason)

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • I never knew I was discriminating by "exclusion"

    Votes: 2 2.4%
  • I don't want them cycling and think you need to be silenced

    Votes: 3 3.6%
  • please educate me

    Votes: 12 14.5%
  • TMI (if this is your selection please PM as to why)

    Votes: 8 9.6%

  • Total voters
    83
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Oldspice

Senior Member
What they said:blink:
 

classic33

Leg End Member
3391 word post and nothing said. But thats nowt new.

Disabled rider, Strongly suggest that you re-read the posts numbered below. Read, learn and learn what is said in them.
Also read what is not said in them, it should help in working out what was actually said.
#368
#378
#380 Explain why its not discriminating #380
#394 Requires a direct & simple answer Yes or No. Has a direct bearing on this thread & whether it continues
#401
#416
#417 Strongly suggest you read this.
#422
#427
#430
#436
#476

This is not the first place you have posted, by your own admissision. Other places were checked as well, some of those brought up information that hasn't been posted on here. I have my reasons for not putting it in place. Not all that information is on the internet. Some has come from phonecalls, questions asked & the answers written down.

I am a cyclist that has a dis-ability, you can read how it affects me if you actually read the posts, instead of skimming it, picking & choosing which bits you like, which bits you don't.
I am not willing to sit on my backside, bleating that the world owes me a living & that I should be exempt from any law I don't like. You on the other hand prefer to sit on your backside, demanding that the law be changed to suit your requirements.

You have now brought the blind into the equation. Other than the one cyclist who appeared on Stan Lee's Superhumans, have you actually seen a blind person ride a bike That is how daft your argument is becoming. I've been on the back of a tandem, as a stoker, to a blind rider. A blind rider in full control of where they were going.

If as you are now claiming you will be re-applying, for a firearms licence, you will be aware that that application can be objected against. It can also be turned down on the advice of nearly every Federal Agency.

One major difference between yourself & the police, military & federal agents is that they are carrying their firearms as part of their work. You are seeking it for "sport/recreational" use. Therefore the ban would not as you incorrectly point out have to apply to them as well.

Deaf & dumb is still used as is deaf mute. Deaf is down to hearing loss Mute is down to loss of speech. You however have turned what is a description of an impairment into an insult. Yet you see nothing wrong in doing so. Please explain your reasoning behind this?

Worth noting the following
"Complaints that a program, service, or activity of the Minnesota Department of Transportation is not accessible to persons with disabilities should be directed to Bruce Lattu at 00-1-651-366-4718."
Have spoken to his department & they say they cannot deal with individual cases such as this where I am not the person making the complaint. That is your job. You have now been pointed in the direction you need to travel, whether you chose to is up to you & you alone.
 

classic33

Leg End Member
Martin Luther King Jr. had a dream:
"I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed - we hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."
He was standing for the rights of others more than himself. You are putting yourself first. Do not knock what he stood for by trying to place yourself in the posistion he was.
You are self serving. He was fighting for the rights of more than one man and he lost his life doing so.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat." (Theodore Roosevelt, “Citizenship in a Republic”.)
 

classic33

Leg End Member
What they said:blink:
Something you're not saying
"That HELP oldspice keeps insisting I go get, I already have. I been running the stuff, I been writing about here past HIM. See he sees it from my perspective (And he is a PHD psychologist*), He been with me for more than 6 years. He can put himself in my shoes, with my "entire history" at his finger tips. He can clearly see the discrimination, I can tell by the tears in his eyes."

*A cyclist seeing a trick cyclist, what next
 

Oldspice

Senior Member
I think you need to change Psychologist as the one you have is not doing you a jot of good, and considering in one of your posts you said that you don't deal with the health care service because there against you (or something like that..far to much tosh to trawl through) how can you be seeing this psychologist for over six years?
and if they keep on crying you really need to change.

PS I thought you were against the government so is this PHD person doing it for free or are you paying? are you not concerned about who has access to your records? Is this person a real practicing doctor or just a chap you know?
 

mr_hippo

Living Legend & Old Fart
As far as I can see, disabled rider is partially deaf, unspecified heart problem, has panic attacks and prefers to ride on the sidewalk, am I right so far?
If Classic 33 does not mind, I will use him in this example. We live not too far away and have known each other for years. I have found out there is a new cafe open, down by the river and about 30 miles away so I phone him up and ask him if he wants to go on Sunday. He does not want to go with me so has to think of an excuse, we have all been there, have we not? One 'excuse' that he will not give is "I am an epilectic and may have a fit" Turn the tables around and one of my excuses will not be "I am deaf and I stutter".
Disabled rider, you have to learn to adapt, stop complaining and learn to turn disadvantages into advantages. I did. How? A lot of people who are bullied in school find a safe haven at home but my bullying continued at home so my escape was the bike and 53 years later I am still pedalling! Other posters on here have similar stories.
 
OP
OP
D

disabled rider

Regular
The fact is your attitude towards others is appalling and your attitude towards yourself is even more so. It is a waste of time to be angry about your disability. You have to get on with life and other people with disability's such as Stephen Hawkins haven't done badly, and there is no reason why you could not achieve either. People won't have time for you if you are always angry or complaining.

Yea I know I have quoted the same post for the second time. this post focuses on the second part.
This post is not open to discussion to anyone other than "V" anyone quoting or posting regarding this post other than "V" I will ignore the post response.

Hey "V" It ever occur to you, I wasn't like this once upon a time? That experiences of "exclusion" has angered and changed my view of how, I see people, when I very rarely, see their good side and mostly see there abusive side? (not to do with how I choose to see it, it is their actions, Like out right Lying to your face). Out right discriminating and they even openly admit it to your face, Then Laugh at you because of your lack of power to stop it. That just maybe there is a REAL injustice occurring, that Could not be addressed Due to a corrupt system that permits such injustice.?

When I read this portion of the post, what comes to mind and aptly describes it from my perspective: I should let them hit me in the face and only look at it positively and say thank you for hitting me in the face, do it again. While thinking to myself that being hit in the face is a good thing, and that is all I deserve and is right in the world.

Don't confuse trying to expose injustice with complaining. They can sound similar.

You mistaken, where my anger lies, it is not my disability I am angry about, I have learned to cope with it, and excel to be better than many of my peers, its the "EXCLUSION" committed by the employers who refused to hire me because of the impairments that anger me. This is NOT irrational thinking either. I have professionals and lawyers telling me this. BEFORE I BECAME BITTER , When I still believed I had a chance and wanted to earn my own way through life is when I was being excluded. My impairments was not stopping me. EMPLOYERS WERE.
It is NOT a complaint its a fact. Attitude wasn't the issue at the time. I conducted my interviews as I should, Presentable clothing and hygiene, Look them In the eye, be honest, present a resume, all the things recommended in trainings I been through.. I wouldn't lie. I refused, to compromise my moral and ethical integrity.

Your mistake is your assuming this bitterness was present, when I was being turned down with lies and outright discrimination. WHICH i could NOT fight against. Employment Lawyers, Themselves said it was classic discrimination, but their hands were tied. Due to the way the system was corrupted.

Seriously how the heck do you look at being discriminated against by exclusion on such a massive scale, That is damaging your health and quality of life, making it impossible for you to take care of yourself responsibly and stay positive? A realist would be mad as hell. And try to undo the injustice.

My current attitude would change if employers in general would be inclusive and not try to abuse or exclude, to save a buck, thinking that due to impairments, we should not get the same wage as everyone due to perceived inferiority..

But then My not working or job seeking isn't even the issue here. I currently get the disability insurance due to exclusion, which impacts how I interact with people. I refuse to cow over to people who think I am inferior.

Now just so you know, people that treat me fairly, at say farmers market and such, do not see this anger, except when I talk about how the employers were excluding. I had offers, to join them, on their farms, if I were to loose Disability insurance and such. I don't work for them due to lack of transportation to get there. Then, unless I live with them, I would not get paid enough to survive on. Most of the small farms can't afford to pay full cash wages. Room and board and shared meals is the bulk of the pay.

The Psychologist, I see does not agree with you about the so called attitude being the reason for my unemployable status, you are claiming That makes me unemployable. I have shared absolutely everything with him, Face to face weekly for 6+ years.. Including what I talk about on here. He has also been there before the bitterness/ anger set in. He KNOWS the actual circumstances in which lead to my unemployable nature. He has clearly expressed to me its not my fault, Early on, I thought it was Mine, That it was something I did. He opened my eyes it wasn't my actions..

There is another advantage my psychologist has over you, He gets to see my whole body language, You just get text, Body language, tone of voice says a lot text can't. I do at least half my communication or more using body language, Mainly as an adaptation to compensate for my hearing loss. A form of sign language. OK off color joke If you have seen the movie "5th element" With Bruce Willis. When the girl with the orange hair using body language while speaking an alien language. right after she falls into Willis's cab from above. That aptly describes me in regards to body language parody. That body language says a whole lot more than any spoken or written communication. body language = high definition, text/speech = analog.
Here is example but I do not use ASL "American Sign language"
View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQ9ALKp6WLk
and


View: http://vimeo.com/13608400
The second vid I can read it , signing it I am at a loss Watch his expressiveness Face, body posture etc. I do that , but I can not do that here. In the end there is too much your missing to make an accurate assessment via text. alone.. I also am speaking with my body language while writing these posts. Personally I wish they had a few thousand more smileys to the available list to build a visual story to show complex expressive emotions. to help put text in to context.

Disabled rider:cheers:
PS then I am not sure how my life turned in to the focal of the topic when I had expressively pointed out that my personal example was meant to establish a point of perspective. and to show how the exclusion took place. Having my background Criticized was never my intention when starting the thread. Then again maybe I do know, It. Has to do when people try to analyze me and fail at it miserably. And then I have an instinctive feeling to step in and try to correct it. In the past when I ignored such comments, People started to seriously gang up on me making all of these "WRONG assumptions based on bad info given by people making a bad analysis of my background, Instead of focusing on the thread topic.In the process destroying any credibility I might of had.

Thread focus is suppose to be how policy causes exclusion of a protected class. And how allowing such policies to continue has a devastating effect on those with impairments. And saying that your communities does not have such policies is just plain wrong. The Atco incident is good example of the equality act failing to do as intended.


And this does apply to cycling.

V i Have not had a chance to read much beyond this point, If you had replied to the first reply to your post I have not seen it yet. when quoting it for a second time.
 

Oldspice

Senior Member
DR you don't know the trials and tribulations that anyone has gone through in life. What they are currently dealing with or the things that have happened to them could render yours, mine or anyone else's insignificant.

I wouldn't wish my life on anyone as it truly is a horror show so bad, not even 'HBO' would show it. I still carry on living, i think it's because i'm curious to see what happens next:smile:

PS Could explain why i have more faith in animals than people:whistle:
 
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