Deaths when not using helmet

[Red Light]

The majority of steps forward in human history have been made by trial and error,not science.

Id call that personal experience.

Yes, that's how they arrived at bloodletting, over the counter children's soothing syrups containing "[url="http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=990CEED71E39E333A25753C3A96E9C946196D6CF"]...morphin sulphate, chloroform, morphin hydrochloride, codeine, heroin, powdered opium, cannabis indica,"[/url], swallowing mercury to cure syphilis, electrical shocks and drinking urine to cure anything and everything and drilling holes in your skull to cure headaches.

Personally I'll stick with evidence based medicine thank you but be my guest.

 

[Red Light]

Why does it not follow that we wouldn't run cars on fossil fuels if science got things right. Using a finite resource to fuel anything shows a blinkered viewpoint.

So what would you have run them on and are you suggesting we shouldn't have plastics or fertilisers or any of the other things supplied by the petrochemical industry while continuing to ship goods round the world in sailing ships?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So what would you have run them on and are you suggesting we shouldn't have plastics or fertilisers or any of the other things supplied by the petrochemical industry while continuing to ship goods round the world in sailing ships?

Well how about Solar Power? Also we use items made from petrochemicals because industry jumped on that band wagon. If science had taken a different route who knows what we would have now. I say again, using a finite fuel source for an (to all intents and purposes) infinite time is very myopic.

 

[Red Light]

Well how about Solar Power? Also we use items made from petrochemicals because industry jumped on that band wagon. If science had taken a different route who knows what we would have now. I say again, using a finite fuel source for an (to all intents and purposes) infinite time is very myopic.

Have you seen a viable solar powered car? Not that you would have photovoltaic solar power at all without science in the first place. I doubt personal experience would have discovered the properties of wafers cut in a specific orientation from an ultra-pure silicon crystal and the quantum physics behind it. But what do silly scientists know eh?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Have you seen a viable solar powered car? Not that you would have photovoltaic solar power at all without science in the first place. I doubt personal experience would have discovered the properties of wafers cut in a specific orientation from an ultra-pure silicon crystal and the quantum physics behind it. But what do silly scientists know eh?

Not yet. How long did it take before there was a viable petrol car. Science is not "silly" but is sometimes blinkered. We took our inspiration from animals. Solid fuel in, energy produced, waste out. If we (as a human race) had looked to plants instead......

 

[lukesdad]

You also need to look at new technology

This example is of advanced air bag technology being used for cyclists, and as it is in the collar of a jacket or coat would meet the desires of both camps, and also be suitable for everyone including pedestrians and motorists


[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVZ0qiA-jBY&feature=player_embedded[/media]





Sadly it appears from the illustration that when operated the system also rips the sleeves off your jacket and changes your sex!

Mmm that does look interesting.

 

[Red Light]

Not yet. How long did it take before there was a viable petrol car. Science is not "silly" but is sometimes blinkered. We took our inspiration from animals. Solid fuel in, energy produced, waste out. If we (as a human race) had looked to plants instead......

Actually we took our inspiration from fire, not animals. Our energy economy was based first on wood, then coal and now oil and gas. So it started with plants and our consumption of wood energy is about the same now as in 1750, but its only capable of supplying a tiny fraction of the needs today.

If you have an hour and a half spare, Steve Koonin did a very thoughtful analysis of the situation back in 2007. Don't pre-judge it from the BP tag.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt_mluFK7xk[/media]


P.S. Not sure whether its in this video but a snippet he uses to characterise the magnitude of the task is that when you put the petrol nozzle into the car and pull the trigger you are transferring energy into the tank at a rate of 15MW. Which makes the 3kW plug for an electric car look pretty small.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Actually we took our inspiration from fire, not animals. Our energy economy was based first on wood, then coal and now oil and gas. So it started with plants and our consumption of wood energy is about the same now as in 1750, but its only capable of supplying a tiny fraction of the needs today.

If you have an hour and a half spare, Steve Koonin did a very thoughtful analysis of the situation back in 2007. Don't pre-judge it from the BP tag.

[media]
]View: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt_mluFK7xk[/media]


P.S. Not sure whether its in this video but a snippet he uses to characterise the magnitude of the task is that when you put the petrol nozzle into the car and pull the trigger you are transferring energy into the tank at a rate of 15MW. Which makes the 3kW plug for an electric car look pretty small.

Interesting. I saw a documentary some time ago that "suggested" the inspiration was from animals. I will take a look at the video but am recovering from a 151Km ride at the mo and so my brain is not best placed to take in information.

 

[Red Light]

Interesting. I saw a documentary some time ago that "suggested" the inspiration was from animals.

Probably the cooking thereof

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Probably the cooking thereof

Not at all. It suggested what I stated originally. Fire was the idea behind combustion but the need to use "solid" fuels came from watching animals.

Theories are like standards - There are so many of them

 

[Mark_Robson]

Yes, that's how they arrived at bloodletting, over the counter children's soothing syrups containing "...morphin sulphate, chloroform, morphin hydrochloride, codeine, heroin, powdered opium, cannabis indica,", swallowing mercury to cure syphilis, electrical shocks and drinking urine to cure anything and everything and drilling holes in your skull to cure headaches.

Personally I'll stick with evidence based medicine thank you but be my guest.

Has anyone told you that you have a tendency to come across as being very condescending and pretentious?

The original point was about steps forward in human history and not just medicine or science.

You come from a scientific background and I come from an engineering background so we may look at things from slightly different perspectives but in my experience nearly every breakthrough in human history has came from trial and error, Don't scientists and engineers call it experimentation? As you know until you prove something practically its nothing more than a theory and the only way that I know to prove a theory is through trial and error, or experimentation if you wish.

How does evidence based medicine work?

 

[Red Light]

Not at all. It suggested what I stated originally. Fire was the idea behind combustion but the need to use "solid" fuels came from watching animals.

Theories are like standards - There are so many of them

Don't think early man had much choice other than solid fuels to be honest. And the theories of combustion were completely unrelated to what goes on in digestion such that although we might associate them based on modern science there was zero reason to do so in prehistoric times when fuel was first use.

Yes there are theories and theories but some fit the known facts better than others.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Has anyone told you that you have a tendency to come across as being very condescending and pretentious?

The original point was about steps forward in human history and not just medicine or science.

You come from a scientific background and I come from an engineering background so we may look at things from slightly different perspectives but in my experience nearly every breakthrough in human history has came from trial and error, Don't scientists and engineers call it experimentation? As you know until you prove something practically its nothing more than a theory and the only way that I know to prove a theory is through trial and error, or experimentation if you wish.

How does evidence based medicine work?

Yes I remember watching a program that expressed it thus. Most breakthroughs are derived from "Oh I didn't expect that" (or words to the effect of).

I also agree with your opening remark.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Don't think early man had much choice other than solid fuels to be honest. And the theories of combustion were completely unrelated to what goes on in digestion such that although we might associate them based on modern science there was zero reason to do so in prehistoric times when fuel was first use.

Yes there are theories and theories but some fit the known facts better than others.

We are not talking about early man though are we. We are talking science.

 

[ufkacbln]

The difference is that there always was science, and probably critical appraisal of that science and dissemination it simply wasn't called that.......

Good ideas are promoted and poor ones stifled