Deaths when not using helmet

[ufkacbln]

Ah but if it hurt less that would prove the deity existed which would never do because it would remove the need for faith. So its quite clear the deity exercises her power to make it hurt equally to avoid revealing her existence

You are Oolon Colluphid AICMFP

 

[benb]

Thats a pretty clear position, so in summary;

You belong to group 1. Group 1 greatest fear is compulsion and to fight this the concensus is to prove helmets are unsafe and the wearers of ill informed.

Not really. We don't need to prove helmets are unsafe, as there is no evidence they are effective.
As I said above, some people that wear helmets are uninformed (not necessarily their fault) and others are informed, but ignore or dismiss the evidence because it contradicts their beliefs.

 

[Red Light]

Not really. We don't need to prove helmets are unsafe, as there is no evidence they are effective.
As I said above, some people that wear helmets are uninformed (not necessarily their fault) and others are informed, but ignore or dismiss the evidence because it contradicts their beliefs.

I love the way the helmet lobby try to reverse the burden of proof. The natural state is unhelmeted. It should be for those proposing to change that to prove their proposed intervention improves safety, not everyone else to prove it doesn't. If that were the way things work, you would have people having to prove pharmaceuticals unsafe or ineffective rather than the drugs companies proving them safe and effective, we would have to prove car designs unsafe rather than the car companies NCAP testing them etc.

 

[twobiker]

If you bang your head against a brick wall and it doesn't hurt you may have some underlying medical condition, or you may just be to drunk. plus what sort of deity would stop you banging your head but would let you get squished helmet and all by a cement truck?.

 

[Little yellow Brompton]

If you bang your head against a brick wall and it doesn't hurt you may have some underlying medical condition, or you may just be to drunk. plus what sort of deity would stop you banging your head but would let you get squished helmet and all by a cement truck?.

Loki!

 

[twobiker]

Loki!

 

[Red Light]

I think we need to recognise that some people genuinely don't see it that way.

I recognise it but I don't accept it. Just as there are people out there selling unproven cures for everything up to and including cancer. I recognise they are there but don't accept their blandishments that their product will cure me without objective evidence (usually provided in that case by the regulatory bodies). Its amazing, as a diversion, how much harm is actively caused by some health products sold on the basis of tradition or anecdote. Its why there has been a recent move to regulate herbal medicines despite a significant number of the public swearing they are good for you and don't need proof.

 

[lukesdad]

Not really. We don't need to prove helmets are unsafe, as there is no evidence they are effective.
As I said above, some people that wear helmets are uninformed (not necessarily their fault) and others are informed, but ignore or dismiss the evidence because it contradicts their beliefs.

So in your opinion helmets have no benefit to cyclists ?

 

[benb]

So in your opinion helmets have no benefit to cyclists ?

I think they could possibly have a small protective effect in some very limited situations - basically a stationary fall onto the head.
The risk of this happening is the same or lower as a pedestrian - absolutely tiny.
They are of absolutely no use at higher energy collisions.

So they are not worth wearing, for all of the negative effects we have already gone though.

 

[lukesdad]

I think they could possibly have a small protective effect in some very limited situations - basically a stationary fall onto the head.
The risk of this happening is the same or lower as a pedestrian - absolutely tiny.
They are of absolutely no use at higher energy collisions.

So they are not worth wearing, for all of the negative effects we have already gone though.

So to all the people who have said the wearing of a helmet makes them feel safer or more confident or, to those that say it makes their loved ones happy. You would say this is of no personal benefit to them ?

 

[Angelfishsolo]

So to all the people who have said the wearing of a helmet makes them feel safer or more confident or, to those that say it makes their loved ones happy. You would say this is of no personal benefit to them ?

Look at it this way. With all the evidence proving helmets are useless in the event of a crash you could sue the manufacturer for a fortune if you were injured at a fall below 12mph. Negotiating a tight Black route turn for example.

 

[benb]

So to all the people who have said the wearing of a helmet makes them feel safer or more confident or, to those that say it makes their loved ones happy. You would say this is of no personal benefit to them ?

Yep. If it makes them feel safer when they are not, or makes them overconfident, or offers false hope of how much protection a helmet offers - yes, none of your examples offer a real benefit.

 

[Angelfishsolo]

Yep. If it makes them feel safer when they are not, or makes them overconfident, or offers false hope of how much protection a helmet offers - yes, none of your examples offer a real benefit.

To your knowledge has anyone ever attempted to or succeeded in suing a helmet manufacturer because it failed to do what it was sold to do? If not why do you think that is?

 

[lukesdad]

Yep. If it makes them feel safer when they are not, or makes them overconfident, or offers false hope of how much protection a helmet offers - yes, none of your examples offer a real benefit.

So taking off the helmet and making them a less confident rider would make them safer. Interesting. Especially when you consider how unlikely they were to have a head injury before this action. Wonder how likely they would be after ?

 

[benb]

To your knowledge has anyone ever attempted to or succeeded in suing a helmet manufacturer because it failed to do what it was sold to do? If not why do you think that is?

If you look at the manufacturers claims, they barely claim anything. Cycle helmets are not sold to protect against significant collisions, yet some people still believe and claim that they protect against that.