Cycling Workouts: Discussion/Encouragement/Sharing/Banter

[Legs]

My favourite cake is a pancake. No extended bake required, just a couple of minutes on a high heat and plenty of delicious topping 😋🤣

If you've only got 5 minutes, it's much better to cook a pancake than to get halfway through mixing the batter for a sponge!

I'm in the same camp as you, Nick. Largely sedentary job, two young children and I like to spend time with them and my wife. So I'll only really ever get time for a 90min+ Z2 ride whenever Jo's away for a weekend looking after her elderly parents - I'll get on the turbo after I've tucked the boys up in bed.

I do try to fit Z2 work in, though I much prefer to flog myself hard! Does Z2 work give the same benefits if you're only doing it in short (<1hr) snatches? I've always thought that the real benefits of Z2 and Z1 miles come in the second/third/fourth hours...

 

[bobinski]

If you've only got 5 minutes, it's much better to cook a pancake than to get halfway through mixing the batter for a sponge!

I'm in the same camp as you, Nick. Largely sedentary job, two young children and I like to spend time with them and my wife. So I'll only really ever get time for a 90min+ Z2 ride whenever Jo's away for a weekend looking after her elderly parents - I'll get on the turbo after I've tucked the boys up in bed.

I do try to fit Z2 work in, though I much prefer to flog myself hard! Does Z2 work give the same benefits if you're only doing it in short (<1hr) snatches? I've always thought that the real benefits of Z2 and Z1 miles come in the second/third/fourth hours...

Seiler and others say the benefits eg mitochondrial change occur after about 45 minutes. Longer rides mean greater change.
We have peeps here who do a lot if racing on Zwift but whose endurance and ftp doesn’t seem to improve much if at all. Pete is an exception perhaps because he is new to riding and sees the biggest gains more quickly and I think because he does recovery rides many in z2. I q the merit for most of us of relatively short but hard Zwift efforts unless all you want to is race on Zwift and for no more than 40 mins.But that is a lot more fun than hours of z2. For all of us its a q of balancing what we have time for and energy to do against whatever goals we may have. Whatever works best if you are looking for mind space and a break from work/family whilst keeping fit.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

It was more the assertion that higher intensity work leads to chemical change rather than physiological.

As always it’ll be a bit of both. I think the quick changes generally will be chemical. Increases in blood volume, increases in haemoglobin etc. It’s why you have those studies where they took healthy, but sedentary individuals and 6 weeks of HIIT sees such dramatic results. But they will quickly plateau on their own, if that’s all they did.

Increased stroke volume, bigger mitochondria, more mitochondria’s, better capillary beds in the muscles for higher oxygen uptake, long term changes to gene expression and enzymes activity, changes in muscle fibre size and number, changes in muscle fibre recruitment, changes in energy derived from fat oxidation and glycolic means etc. Some of which is biochemically driven, some bio mechanically driven etc.

Must admit I do find the research going on in physiology quite fascinating. I took part in a lung function and ageing study at Kings College, London in 2018. I was fascinated by what they were able to measure. For instance they were able to capture the speed and frequency of signals from my brain to my diaphragm.

As always, the basics of training is simple, the physiological response complex.

 

[bobinski]

I have this later. A little apprehensive after yesterdays effort. I have ridden it before when ftp was 258 w but i doubt it is going to feel easier.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Does Z2 work give the same benefits if you're only doing it in short (<1hr) snatches?

The latest I’ve got from the podcasts is that it’s the overall volume and frequency of Z2 that matters. In other words you’ll get similar benefits to 5 x 1 hour of Z2 as a 3 hour and 2 hour Z2 ride. Obviously the higher the volume and frequency the better.Personally I still think there’s additional benefit to the long Z2 ride if you can manage it. To do with muscle fatigue and recruitment whilst remaining predominantly aerobic.

But my view in your situation would be that 45 mins to 1 hour of Z2 is better than doing nothing that day. You can only work within the time availability you have.

I used to have a daily cycle commute 5 days a week. I was doing 45 mins of Z2 twice a day, 5 days a week. Then I’d fit in a 2-3 hour mtn bike ride with mates on a Sat morning. Got pretty fit off the back of that.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Seiler and others say the benefits eg mitochondrial change occur after about 45 minutes. Longer rides mean greater change.

You can see it as an interplay of the duration of the individual rides and the frequency at which they occur.

If you generate a smaller stimulus but much more frequently, you may see similar gains to a much bigger stimulus done less frequently. Clearly once a week is likely too little to improve, no matter how long the ride; you’ll be back to where you started after 7 days. At other end 7 days a week may be too much; as you’re getting insufficient recovery.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Completed my tempo efforts at lunch. 4 x 10 mins in a big gear and low cadence. My heart rate was 91% in Z2. I’m in a taper week this week, with a recovery day yesterday, so it may just be a result of being more rested. If I see that again next week, then I may need to up the power target. I always work within ranges and was at the lower end of my tempo power range today.

Saw some street art in an underpass during the 10 min warm up as I headed to the lane I do the efforts on.

 

[bobinski]

The latest I’ve got from the podcasts is that it’s the overall volume and frequency of Z2 that matters. In other words you’ll get similar benefits to 5 x 1 hour of Z2 as a 3 hour and 2 hour Z2 ride. Obviously the higher the volume and frequency the better.Personally I still think there’s additional benefit to the long Z2 ride if you can manage it. To do with muscle fatigue and recruitment whilst remaining predominantly aerobic.

But my view in your situation would be that 45 mins to 1 hour of Z2 is better than doing nothing that day. You can only work within the time availability you have.

I used to have a daily cycle commute 5 days a week. I was doing 45 mins of Z2 twice a day, 5 days a week. Then I’d fit in a 2-3 hour mtn bike ride with mates on a Sat morning. Got pretty fit off the back of that.

I think one of our CC'ers, who is not that keen on training plans , has a similar commute on a fixie so stays in z2 Sets him up nicely for other rides/races. He is one of our stronger riders too (though dont tell him i told you).

 

[Ming the Merciless]

commute on a fixie

Having been doing big gear low cadence constant pressure work today; I’d think fixed will help a lot as well, as there’s no coasting and any hills you can’t just select a lower gear. My legs are certainly feeling like they have better muscular endurance from this work. Something you get by default on fixed.

 

[Ming the Merciless]

I think one of our CC'ers, who is not that keen on training plans

To be honest when I had my regular commute I didn’t need to train, nor did I think about it. Like your mate I was one of the fittest amongst those I rode with. It’s only since I no longer have that regular cycle commute that I’ve had to put some focus into training, to maintain or even try and improve my fitness as the years pass.

 

[CXRAndy]

Regular and often is good for Z2.

You can keep doing it because it doesn't drain the person too much, unless it's 40 mile commute/day

 

[JuhaL]

Been about week since I have done indoor training, thanks for the flu for that. Now I have start to feel withdrawal symptoms after I have watch this topic and read your training sessions what you are done all these days. Looking forward if I can start to do something in a week. I hope my lungs will get clear of all that "junk".

 

[Ming the Merciless]

Been about week since I have done indoor training, thanks for the flu for that. Now I have start to feel withdrawal symptoms after I have watch this topic and read your training sessions what you are done all these days. Looking forward if I can start to do something in a week. I hope my lungs will get clear of all that "junk".

Don’t push too hard too soon. I stuck to Z2 for two weeks after I tested negative for Covid back in November. Then some Z3 before returning to high intensity 3 weeks after Covid left the room.

 

[JuhaL]

Don’t push too hard too soon. I stuck to Z2 for two weeks after I tested negative for Covid back in November. Then some Z3 before returning to high intensity 3 weeks after Covid left the room.

I try to looking forward the moment when all symptoms are gone. If I start too soon it's too risky that myocarditis can occur and I don't want that happen. After that I start with base Z2 training and at least 2-weeks like what you did as well. This is been a worse than a Covid what I had last year.

 

[<Tommy>]

I think one of our CC'ers, who is not that keen on training plans , has a similar commute on a fixie so stays in z2 Sets him up nicely for other rides/races. He is one of our stronger riders too (though dont tell him i told you).

To be honest my main problem with training plans is mine, and others, inability to realistically stick at them. That is why I preach that the journey is just as important as the overall goal. Because if you’re not enjoying the journey, then you’ll never see the goal achieved.

I do actually have my own set of criteria that I try and stick to in terms of variation in my riding.

On a side note in my opinion even amongst races there’s a massive variation in what you get out of them. Ie short term ‘glory’ verses long term gain. I’d suggest people that have continually tried to push variety have seen a bigger pay off over the last few years vs people who stuck to one type of race. I referenced Alan in my previous post because he races but also does at least one longer endurance ride a week. For me that type of balance is more likely sustainable than focusing on one thing alone.

But in the end to go full circle, it is better to do what you enjoy rather than nothing at all. Unless that is you enjoy doing nothing of course!