CTC capitulation?

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jonesy

jonesy

Guru
I'll come and have a go, when the railway from Oxford is re- opened!
 
Wobblers

Wobblers

Euthermic
Location
Minkowski Space
jonesy said:
As a general statement that is fine, Nonetheless, it simply isn't controversial that reducing turning radii reduces traffic speed...
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Therein lies a problem. Indeed, the idea that reducing speed improves safety is uncontroversial. In fact, it is almost axiomatic. Thus this concept is applied to every and all situations. The problem is that when this axiomatic thinking replaces evidence based practice. As @StuartG put it so eloquently, this sort of common sense approach does not always accord with reality. For instance, road narrowing as a means to reduce traffic speed merely creates points of conflict between vulnerable road users and motorists: they are always unpleasant and occasionally downright dangerous. It has been argued on this forum that putting in cycle lanes reduces traffic speeds by narrowing the road. Yet evidence shows that motorists pass cyclists more closely when they're in cycle lanes. It also puts the cyclist in a position where he or she is less visible. Speaking for myself, I'd far prefer to be overtaken by some prat at 50 mph five feet away than at 30 mph six inches from my elbow. This attitude that vulnerable road users are merely some sort of mobile bollard who exist to slow down motorists is the perfect illustration of all that is wrong with traffic management in the UK.

The thing is, "lower speed equals safer" is a rule of thumb. It is to be used as a handy shortcut to good design. It is certainly not a substitute for reasoning or to be used in lieu of evidence. Yet I worry that this is exactly what happens all too often. (Though hopefully not in this specific example.)
 
StuartG

StuartG

slower but no further
Location
SE London
User said:
Oh so you're the only person whose cycled round that roundabout are you?
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I will save FD the time and effort to say he never said or implied that. If we are into point scoring I can say I have probably been round those A5 roundabouts more times than you and I think, like others, that your point is, at best, rather stretched.

I wonder if @dellzeqq is reading this and pondering a FNRttR ... if you would be prepared to lead us all round the trialled roundabour and host a real discussion over a Bedford Banger Breakfast ,,, your call!
 
snorri

snorri

Legendary Member
Location
East coast, up a bit.
Can someone post Googlemap links to a few of these Dutch turbo roundabouts please?
I've covered a few miles over there and seen plenty of roundabouts but can't recall seeing a turbo.
 
U

User169

Guest
snorri said:
Can someone post Googlemap links to a few of these Dutch turbo roundabouts please?
I've covered a few miles over there and seen plenty of roundabouts but can't recall seeing a turbo.
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Hope this works - Roundabouts of Pijnacker!

https://maps.google.nl/maps/ms?msid=211709456663150933703.0004a8a93add6c4098869&msa=0

If you look at the key on the left-hand side, the last three are turbo roundabouts. I regularly use the one at the junction of N472/N470 (on bike, never driven around it).
 
Flying Dodo

Flying Dodo

It'll soon be summer
Location
The sunniest place along the south coast
User said:
Oh so you're the only person whose cycled round that roundabout are you?

As it is, I've cycled round the existing roundabout (I used to have to visit Bedford on a regular basis, as it was part of my patch) and I've cycled round some of the Dutch turbo roundabouts (one of the advantages of living in East Anglia is easy - and cheap - access to Holland) - not just some mock up at the TRL testing ground.
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As you well know, "probably" doesn't mean definitely. And the sole reason why I'd raised the issue is that it is relevant, having also been on the TRL trial roundabout which others have stated would be their preferred solution, so unlike others who haven't done either, I can see that the turbo roundabout, whilst by no means a good solution, should be better than the current roundabout.


Edit: And I should be cycling in Amsterdam when I go back there again at the end of the month, so I'll see if I can find a Dutch turbo roundabout.
 
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