CPR Again

[Profpointy]

And anyway, they managed to teach us a couple of hours basic first aid including cpr, and stopping severe bleeding when I was at school some 40 years ago. Dunno why it should be so much more difficult now

 

[Levo-Lon]

I did a days first aid course last Friday...as said it should be compulsory in schools..
i did basic mouth to mouth as a kid but its all changed now with the 30 pumps 2 breath repeat...

 

[postman]

From one old medical man.I salute you Sir.

 

[Julia9054]

You don't need to teach all the teachers. Each school must have at least one first aider who has done the course and can pass on what they have learned. Teaching CPR can also be done in blocks very much like it is done on first aid courses. A whole class at a time can be taught how to do CPR. And you will have a whole year or even two if needed and wouldn't have an adverse effect on the rest of the ciriculem.

And doing something even if It isn't successful is Better than doing nothing. Doing nothing will inevitably result in death. Doing something, even if a person isn't fully competent could give the patient a fighting chance rather than none at all until qualified ambulance crews could get to the scene.

And I doubt very much that my grandsons school would be considering teaching the children CPR if they didn't think it could be achieved or if they thought that it would stretch the teaching staff or the budget to the limit. I personally think its a good idea, and Well done to the school for taking the initiative like that.

There is a huge difference between having a first aid certificate and being qualified to instruct others.
I can ride a bike, I can teach my own children to ride a bike. This does not mean I am able to go into schools and run cycling proficiency courses.
My school runs a first aid course as an after school club. We buy in a qualified trainer. This, of course, only reaches a small number of interested pupils (often those who want to apply for medical courses and want it for their cv). It would not be feasible to offer it to 1800 pupils as part of the compulsory curriculum

 

[Profpointy]

There is a huge difference between having a first aid certificate and being qualified to instruct others.
I can ride a bike, I can teach my own children to ride a bike. This does not mean I am able to go into schools and run cycling proficiency courses.
My school runs a first aid course as an after school club. We buy in a qualified trainer. This, of course, only reaches a small number of interested pupils (often those who want to apply for medical courses and want it for their cv). It would not be feasible to offer it to 1800 pupils as part of the compulsory curriculum

Leaving aside for a minute that various schools (or maybe LEAs) mentioned above seem to manage to teach first aid, the goverment currently works out we need 10% history teachers, 23% science teachers 3% headmasters, 5% peripatetic music (instrument) teachers and so forth and budgets are duly set. All they need to do is say 1% first aid training and 1%cycling profficiency and shave a few tenths of the other pots and the LEAs can implement over a few years.

figures are illustrative before anyone starts arguing

 

[welsh dragon]

There is a huge difference between having a first aid certificate and being qualified to instruct others.
I can ride a bike, I can teach my own children to ride a bike. This does not mean I am able to go into schools and run cycling proficiency courses.
My school runs a first aid course as an after school club. We buy in a qualified trainer. This, of course, only reaches a small number of interested pupils (often those who want to apply for medical courses and want it for their cv). It would not be feasible to offer it to 1800 pupils as part of the compulsory curriculum

According to the st.john ambulance website, schools should do what they can to teach the children life skills such as.CPR and with that in mind they offer free training courses for teachers students alike.

 

[JoshM]

Having been involved in hundreds of out of hospital cardiac arrests I add my well done. Most arrests I've been involved in don't end as well, let alone when the patient is as aged and unwell as your neighbour.

Please remember that CPR is hard work, physically, and often the person who finds the elderly person in arrest is a similar age, and is likely unwell as well. Often calling a neighbour is a practical rather than a knowledge thing. Knowing your neighbour is both willing and competent like numbnuts clearly is makes that person the first person you'd reach out to if you need help.

Hope you are ok @numbnuts, its not an easy situation to deal with even if its not your first time.

 

[subaqua]

yebbut you don't seem to be considering the bigger picture. You have to teach the teachers to teach anything and teaching anything takes time. Long term it's clearly cost neutral just like any other priority choice. Now for a single school to add it in out of extra money, you might have a (weak) point but to say it's impossible and so angrilly at that I can't fathom

Never said it was impossible . Throw enough resources st something and you can do practically anything. However time cost benefit effort makes a lot impractical.

As I said , we looked at it and it wasn't feasible mainly on cost.

 

[subaqua]

yebbut you don't seem to be considering the bigger picture. You have to teach the teachers to teach anything and teaching anything takes time. Long term it's clearly cost neutral just like any other priority choice. Now for a single school to add it in out of extra money, you might have a (weak) point but to say it's impossible and so angrilly at that I can't fathom

When you are married to a teacher and hear all the bollox that "teachers should do " and see how utterly demoralised the profession is due to stupidity and parents not taking responsibility then you will understand .

 

[Profpointy]

When you are married to a teacher and hear all the bollox that "teachers should do " and see how utterly demoralised the profession is due to stupidity and parents not taking responsibility then you will understand .

But that's beside the point entirely.
It may be a valid point in and of itself, but an entirely different one. That teachers are demoralised and / or badly treated is unrelated to whether first aid should be on the syllabus surely?

Not quite sure how it is reasonable to expect parents to teach CPR and first aid either, any more that it's reasonable to expect them to teach calculus.

 

[Profpointy]

Never said it was impossible . Throw enough resources st something and you can do practically anything. However time cost benefit effort makes a lot impractical.

As I said , we looked at it and it wasn't feasible mainly on cost.

But it's cost neutral ! Don't teach this, start teaching that instead - an hour's teaching costs 'x' so spend it how you want.
Swapping over from doing the great reform act to causes of the first world war isn't considered impractical, so why is this so hard ?

 

[subaqua]

But that's beside the point entirely.
It may be a valid point in and of itself, but an entirely different one. That teachers are demoralised and / or badly treated is unrelated to whether first aid should be on the syllabus surely?

Not quite sure how it is reasonable to expect parents to teach CPR and first aid either, any more that it's reasonable to expect them to teach calculus.

How about they put their own kids on a course . Rather than expecting education to be done solely by teachers.

I can't teach my kids to sail . They joined sea scouts for that . Or should schools teach that being as we live in an island

 

[subaqua]

But it's cost neutral ! Don't teach this, start teaching that instead - an hour's teaching costs 'x' so spend it how you want.
Swapping over from doing the great reform act to causes of the first world war isn't considered impractical, so why is this so hard ?

Skill sets ? Competencies ? Does the first aid covenant cover being taught by a teacher with an hours training in how to do it?

 

[Profpointy]

Skill sets ? Competencies ? Does the first aid covenant cover being taught by a teacher with an hours training in how to do it?

You're completely missing the point. At an overall management level you set priorities; slices of the pie if you will. Allocate, 2% to first aid, then the training costs are allocated similarly, and thence teaching time. It's no different from deciding to spend 30% on science teaching.
You seem to be fixating on the point that you can't just magic up first aiders for a week next tuesday or whatever, but that doesn't mean it can't be sorted over the next couple of years. Same if you decide to do more science - you don't immediately arrange the timetable but you plan it in including training up science teachers and recruiting them etc. This isn't about MORE resources, it's just choosing what the money is spent on.

Maybe not totally do-able at local level, but even so my school managed it 40 years ago, as have other schools mentioned upthread - especially since St John's ambulance do such things without charge it seems.

 

[Profpointy]

How about they put their own kids on a course . Rather than expecting education to be done solely by teachers.

I can't teach my kids to sail . They joined sea scouts for that . Or should schools teach that being as we live in an island

First aid is not for the good of the children being taught but for the people they subsequently help - for society if you like.

why bother with school at all then ?
And the sailing point is just being silly