COVID Vaccine !

[DCLane]

Rode past the Dewsbury vaccination point this afternoon; I'm aware messages went out to patients locally via lots of GP practices. They appeared to be really busy. Doctors / nurses / pharmacists and the wider community have stepped up to help with taxi firms offering free taxis to those needing to get to their vaccination

Given that many are helping on a voluntary basis SWMBO's going to be doing the same in Barnsley soon there'll be delivery of coffee / tea and buns to the centre at some point next weekend with a "thanks, it's appreciated" note.

 

[Ajax Bay]

The only negative is that some Tories will jumping up and down to ease the lockdown in the next couple of weeks...time and time we have relaxed restrictions too early

It's useful to have several different opinions on the best way forward shared: I don't see why you whinge about it - we live in a democratic society and these guys were elected. This is not a "negative". Do you think it'd be a healthy society if NOONE argued for easing of the lockdown?
Were the restrictions relaxed too early in the summer (my answer = 'no' - maybe you disagree (with data)).
I think that it's unlikely that restrictions will be relaxed until after half term and same time as ALL over 70s have received at least one dose and time to develop resistance (in the expectation that 88% of those who might otherwise catch COVID-19 and die, will live).
We must get our children back to school. They only have limited time to learn and grow up.

 

[kingrollo]

It's useful to have several different opinions on the best way forward shared: I don't see why you whinge about it - we live in a democratic society and these guys were elected. This is not a "negative". Do you think it'd be a healthy society if NOONE argued for easing of the lockdown?
Were the restrictions relaxed too early in the summer (my answer = 'no' - maybe you disagree (with data)).
I think that it's unlikely that restrictions will be relaxed until after half term and same time as ALL over 70s have received at least one dose and time to develop resistance (in the expectation that 88% of those who might otherwise catch COVID-19 and die, will live).
We must get our children back to school. They only have limited time to learn and grow up.

It was the November lockdown I was quoting. It hardly slowed the spread at all - yet we still came out of that lockdown. With very predictable results.

So in that respect those alternative views of the Tory backbenchers - we are at odds with the scientific experts views....were those views helpful ? - not if you lost a brother, dad, son , mom, sister - they weren't helpful views at all.

 

[BoldonLad]

Oh dear, I thought for a while there I had created a tide of optimism, nice to see things settling back to normal service

 

[Unkraut]

In the early days after the first dose, the immunity/resistance will not be present so it would be surprising (statistically) if people did NOT become infected, say in the first 12 days.

Yes I take the point that some of the infections could well have happened before you could expect the vaccine to take effect. There must have been some, however, where this wasn't the case and that is what struck me. To date there has been no hard evidence of this.

I find these figures [take up rate of vaccines] very odd. Nowt so queer as folk:

A recent survey of the Volk here showed a substantial increase in the willingness to have the vaccine - it's now 90%, with two-thirds having no qualms up from 51%, and outright rejecters having halved. Those with reservations about it have more than halved.

It was the November lockdown I was quoting. It hardly slowed the spread at all - yet we still came out of that lockdown. With very predictable results.

So in that respect those alternative views of the Tory backbenchers - we are at odds with the scientific experts views....were those views helpful ?

Compare the Irish experience. They had an exponential increase, went into lockdown for November, then in an attempt to get some normality back in time for Christmas relaxed too early and are now having to confront a massive rise again.

The minute the infection rate falls is not the time to starting talking of relaxing restrictions. The rate here per 100 000 over 7 days is around 150 (with hotspots much higher), but this needs to fall to 50 or preferably lower before any substantial relaxation can occur because contact tracing is then possible.

Relaxing too early gives the worst of all possible worlds - a yo yo effect in infections where the good a lockdown did is quickly undone requiring a further lockdown. This in turn is more damaging to the economy.

 

[kingrollo]

Yes I take the point that some of the infections could well have happened before you could expect the vaccine to take effect. There must have been some, however, where this wasn't the case and that is what struck me. To date there has been no hard evidence of this.

A recent survey of the Volk here showed a substantial increase in the willingness to have the vaccine - it's now 90%, with two-thirds having no qualms up from 51%, and outright rejecters having halved. Those with reservations about it have more than halved.

Compare the Irish experience. They had an exponential increase, went into lockdown for November, then in an attempt to get some normality back in time for Christmas relaxed too early and are now having to confront a massive rise again.

The minute the infection rate falls is not the time to starting talking of relaxing restrictions. The rate here per 100 000 over 7 days is around 150 (with hotspots much higher), but this needs to fall to 50 or preferably lower before any substantial relaxation can occur because contact tracing is then possible.

Relaxing too early gives the worst of all possible worlds - a yo yo effect in infections where the good a lockdown did is quickly undone requiring a further lockdown. This in turn is more damaging to the economy.

Exactly.

Also the more infections we have the greater the chance of new variants developing.

 

[kingrollo]

Oh dear, I thought for a while there I had created a tide of optimism, nice to see things settling back to normal service

I think there is optimism , there is also impatience to get back to normal from some quarters.

 

[Cirrus]

Many NHS trusts are currently in the process of vaccinating non-patient facing and non-clinical support staff.

Have a family member who is getting vaccinated today, the centre has more vaccines than patients for the day, instead of them going to waste they put out a call to "back office" staff to see if they could get the the centre and be willing to be jabbed.

 

[newfhouse]

My mother (86, Kingston Upon Thames) received a letter in the post today inviting her to book a jab through the wider vaccine programme. Within minutes of opening it she had a phone call from her GP practice offering her an appointment on Sunday in the church hall next to the surgery. Two offers in a day, so the system seems to be working well.

First Pfizer dose successfully delivered. She’s been told to expect a call for the second jab in twelve weeks.

She saw a couple of last minute refusals by people that said they wanted the Oxford AZ vaccine rather than the foreign Pfizer one. Maybe that just reflects the age demographic, but it’s still a bit sad.

Overall It sounds like a well run process with several community volunteers shepherding and taking care of the old folks.

 

[MntnMan62]

Given the political leaders popular in the US being an imbecile is hardly a disadvantage

True. But I attribute that to the general stupidity level of the US citizen.

 

[Ajax Bay]

It was the November lockdown I was quoting. It hardly slowed the spread at all - yet we still came out of that lockdown. With very predictable results.
So in that respect those alternative views of the Tory backbenchers - we are at odds with the scientific experts views....were those views helpful ? - not if you lost a brother, dad, son , mom, sister - they weren't helpful views at all.

I read your post - I can see you were citing the November lockdown experience. What about the release of restrictions in the summer? Do you think those were "too soon"? With very predictable results?
Politicians - our parliament - have to balance the damage (and lives, and life experience) caused by lockdown against the efficacy of lockdown. And a range of views is vitally important: and I respect their views just as much as I respect your view of what's "helpful" or not. But do you want to live in a totalitarian state?
I'm sorry if you've lost loved ones. Making decisions is not easy and one group's set of priorities are not the same as another's so it's not surprising that views are different and decisions are both difficult and their correctness disputed (both ways). My children's education is being adversely affected. So pressure to release relaxations is a "helpful view" which needs to be taken into due account. The range of views of the scientific and judicial communities are also "helpful" eg Indie-SAGE, or Lord Sumption and Lady Hale for another.
Go and look at some views which don't accord with yours. It may be uncomfortable (I suspect too uncomfortable for you - your choice). Try this rational Irishman: Ivor Cummins - on Lockdown in Ireland

 

[matticus]

Politicians - our parliament - have to balance the damage (and lives, and life experience) caused by lockdown against the efficacy of lockdown. And a range of views is vitally important: and I respect their views just as much as I respect your view of what's "helpful" or not. But do you want to live in a totalitarian state?

Exactly. Complex issues need debate.

(Relevance to Vaccine thread??)

 

[Ajax Bay]

You are, as so often the case, right, Matt: off topic. And such a gentle nudge
@lane and @kingrollo - I'll see you on the other side.

 

[mjr]

I'm fine with constructive criticism where due but sadly social media has been alive with politically biased denigrating which imo has often simply been for the sake of it imo. At every twist and turn the Gov's actions have been mocked and derided by some who seem to gleefully delight in bad news and mistakes.

I think that's ascribing bad motivations to people who are upset that the government's actions - or more often inaction? - are literally leading to deaths in their community. Surely you must think at least some of the decisions have been headdeskingly awful? Not even the dodgy PPE contract awards?

And it's all well and good to say it will come out in an inquiry later, but how many more will die before that even starts?

Great News today that we are now at c3.9m vaccinations which will no doubt be exceeded tomorrow.

Well, it would be scandalous if they don't do any vaccinations at all tomorrow!

Plus welcome News of the extra 10 hubs due on-stream tomorrow.

Yes, that will help a lot.

 

[kingrollo]

I read your post - I can see you were citing the November lockdown experience. What about the release of restrictions in the summer? Do you think those were "too soon"? With very predictable results?
Politicians - our parliament - have to balance the damage (and lives, and life experience) caused by lockdown against the efficacy of lockdown. And a range of views is vitally important: and I respect their views just as much as I respect your view of what's "helpful" or not. But do you want to live in a totalitarian state?
I'm sorry if you've lost loved ones. Making decisions is not easy and one group's set of priorities are not the same as another's so it's not surprising that views are different and decisions are both difficult and their correctness disputed (both ways). My children's education is being adversely affected. So pressure to release relaxations is a "helpful view" which needs to be taken into due account. The range of views of the scientific and judicial communities are also "helpful" eg Indie-SAGE, or Lord Sumption and Lady Hale for another.
Go and look at some views which don't accord with yours. It may be uncomfortable (I suspect too uncomfortable for you - your choice). Try this rational Irishman: Ivor Cummins - on Lockdown in Ireland

I don't see why you are widening the debate. My point was that a number of Tory backbenchers are keen to open up lockdown sooner than the scientific experts think is wise. Of course they are entitled to air there opinions - but to a greater or lesser degree they have been acted upon with massive and avoidable loss of life....not having learnt there lesson are now calling for the same thing. Indeed one was threatening to dethrone the PM if lockdown wasn't eased.