COVID Vaccine !

[fossyant]

As I've said, it's not all about me. I'm worried for them if they catch it, I'm worried for me and my wife, parents, in-laws if they pass it on. I'm worried for the teachers and for the other children, I'm worried for the other parents, grandparents and guardians. I'm worried for the potential for mixing and for new variants developing and spreading via schools into the wider community.

You are knackered having youngsters. Like any other 'bug' it will fly round and you won't know unless they are tested. We've been lucky with my daughter at college - she's 'only' had to isolate for two occasions, but that's 4 weeks lost at college. Many Primary/secondary have lost 6 occasions, nearly 3 months. That can't go on.

We will still have to be careful, and we can't see restrictions/testing lifting if my wife want's to see her mum in the Nursing home - we see the twice weekly testing continuing (very unpleasant), and Boris said the numbers of visitors can increase from 2 - I doubt us as a family of 4 will be allowed to visit at once.

We have to lift restrictions. TBH I'm sort of happy where we are now, but I'll most likely still carry hand sanitiser. It's seeing family that's been a restriction - we've had a couple of 'get togethers' but they have been in the garden - they actually would usually be there too at this time of year.

We've got a couple of concert's coming up, but I'm not going to be hugging everyone there. I'll be glad when I don't need to wear a mask - I don't see their efficiency, and I'll be relieved to be able to see where I'm going (glasses wearer).

I think the 'space' and 'hands' message still needs to be there. As part of general hygiene, you sort of realise how 'mucky' shopping trolly handles must have been - there are some right grotty folk out there. I do hope shops still have dispensers, although I'm seeing a few that don't.

 

[fossyant]

Unfortunately, the way the government has handled this has left folk in fear. My mum's hardly been anywhere, and really doesn't like going out for food shops - goes early morning.

Things like protecting the old - we don't go and see MIL if we've got a cold or are feeling unwell. Flu would kill her, and a cold usually ends in a chest infection for her. She's got knackered heart, lungs etc etc. Just common sense needs to prevail. She's managed to get through the last 18 months without covid, or any colds/flu. Prior to the nursing home, she'd have at least two hospital visits a year and be on death's door.

 

[winjim]

Yes, my example. It was an appalling thing for the block to do, i believe I may have called him a nobhead.


You really do struggle sometimes don't you? I have never said that is the place we need to be, I keep saying, and you seem to not be able to read it when I write it, that we all need to get to a place where we take this seriously, take care of each other and behave responsibly. We can't stay locked in/up for ever, what we would do about things like furlough? Just keep paying it indefinitely?

You work in health and in a hospital. I assume you see health workers becoming more relaxed about the restrictions now in place and confident that things can be managed? Nothing changes on the 19th, if you want to do those same things you absolutely can. None of the restrictions being released are instructions to not wear masks, carry on wearing one.

Now, I asked earlier but you ignored it. Do you really honestly think that Boris Johnson doesn't care if your wife dies?

My place of work is not relaxing Covid restrictions. I honestly do not believe that Boris Johnson cares in the slightest about anybody who is not Boris Johnson.

Covid restrictions work at the population level.

Nobheads will be nobheads. We need to remove their ability to be nobheads if the potential consequence of their nobheaddery is death.

 

[DCLane]

It's a matter of managing risk Craig and @shep . SWMBO's a medical specialist and Covid's not the first respiratory or other health crisis she's been involved with. We've at-home processes in place and her work's been great at providing accommodation for her when needed.

Does she leave her job because of the risk to me? We discussed that many years ago when she first wanted to work in medical emergency areas (SARS overseas, Swine Flu here and others) and Covid's just the current one. The decision was that her role is to help save lives and she's doing that.

Her group of specialists won an award last month for their efforts in devising new medical treatment for Covid patients and she got recognised for her specialism: there's no way I'm stopping her and I don't think I should.

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For reference, apparently velodromes are classed as 'outdoors' due to the roof height. I race at Manchester and their precautions are well thought-through. BC's got some very clear guidelines for managing races, which we helped out with as 'guinea pigs' last year, and I've very few concerns.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

My place of work is not relaxing Covid restrictions. I honestly do not believe that Boris Johnson cares in the slightest about anybody who is not Boris Johnson.

Covid restrictions work at the population level.

Nobheads will be nobheads. We need to remove their ability to be nobheads if the potential consequence of their nobheaddery is death.

But no view on how this could or should be handled, just that someone you don't like isn't doing it properly. That leaves you all the space in the world to constantly have a go at what is being planned, without ever having to take any of the responsibility for anything. I think that puts you in the same place as some of the selfish people.

You want to carry on with severe lock down restrictions, masks, restrictions to numbers, everyone working at home etc because that suits you. The people who it doesn't suit, actors, people who work in public spaces and people who thrive being around people can all just do what? Lose their jobs, go slightly mad from being alone all the time, as long as you are safe and things are done to suit you then all is well?

**Not aimed at @winjim ** Why do people find it so hard to come up with a plan that they would implement, yet carp on endlessly about the plan has had been put in place. Most contributors are happy to look back and complain about what has happened, but no-one will look forward, I guess because they realise just how impossible it is to predict something when you don't know what is around the corner and they simply aren't brave enough. They are brave enough to be abusive to the people who do have that job though.

 

[Craig the cyclist]

I race at Manchester and their precautions are well thought-through. BC's got some very clear guidelines for managing races, which we helped out with as 'guinea pigs' last year, and I've very few concerns.

Hold on, everyone has to stay locked down and you won't go near people because you will die, now you tell us you race and were a 'guinea pig'

 

[PK99]

Hold on, everyone has to stay locked down and you won't go near people because you will die, now you tell us you race and were a 'guinea pig'

Oxymoronic positions on issues is common.

 

[newfhouse]

someone you don't like isn't doing it properly

Why doesn't he like him? Cause or effect?

 

[DCLane]

Hold on, everyone has to stay locked down and you won't go near people because you will die, now you tell us you race and were a 'guinea pig'

You're conflating two things Craig.

We got asked last year whether we would help be part of British Cycling's development Covid racing/training processes which were formulated at Newcastle-under-Lyme velodrome for use across the country. That meant very careful guidelines; i.e. "join the track, ride round, stop, let us sanitise". It was, and is, heavily monitored. Don't follow the instructions and you're sent away: we saw that happen last year and this. The same in racing where we're not that close, particularly in time trials: they're "turn up, foot down, set off at 0" whilst the timekeeper counts you down from a distance , with sign in/out being done at a distance and results sent afterwards. It's a lot more manageable than you think.

That's totally different to an open environment where no-one has guidelines or rules to follow. If there aren't any, or it's 'be sensible', then the majority are but a few idiots always exist.

 

[Milkfloat]

Personally I think the government have got it about right. The severe hospitalisations and deaths are down to manageable numbers and the statistics show that dying from COVID is now pretty rare. Balanced out with the harm that restrictions bring, medically (including mentally) and economically, I think reduced restrictions make sense. I do however think the messaging should be slightly different, rather than ‘it’s go time’ I think the message should be ‘if you can take precautions without impacting your life too much then do so’. For example, keep masks on public transport and perhaps even shops, suggest that if people can eat and drink outside that they do, suggest that pubs keep table service and don’t go round licking strangers. These ’good practice‘ suggestions don’t cause harm or have a big economic cost, but they still have an impact on reducing transmission.

To me the ’do what you want’ message suggests that the government want to get a peak of infections over the summer so that the NHS is not overly stressed in the autumn/winter when you add in flu and normal winter bugs. This kind of makes sense and goes back to the early plan of herd immunity, but is risky if a new variant arrives. If this is the government‘s plan then I hope they are keeping a close eye out on variants and also are prepared to slam the borders shut.

 

[PK99]

You're conflating two things Craig.

We got asked last year whether we would help be part of British Cycling's development Covid racing/training processes which were formulated at Newcastle-under-Lyme velodrome for use across the country. That meant very careful guidelines; i.e. "join the track, ride round, stop, let us sanitise". It was, and is, heavily monitored. Don't follow the instructions and you're sent away: we saw that happen last year and this. The same in racing where we're not that close, particularly in time trials: they're "turn up, foot down, set off at 0" whilst the timekeeper counts you down from a distance , with sign in/out being done at a distance and results sent afterwards. It's a lot more manageable than you think.

That's totally different to an open environment where no-one has guidelines or rules to follow. If there aren't any, or it's 'be sensible', then the majority are but a few idiots always exist.

All that seems sensible.

BUT, it seems a bit off beam for vulnerable individuals to be protocol testing guinea pigs.

Surely protocols are best tested by those less at risk?

 

[roubaixtuesday]

You want to carry on with severe lock down restrictions, masks, restrictions to numbers, everyone working at home etc because that suits you. The people who it doesn't suit, actors, people who work in public spaces and people who thrive being around people can all just do what? Lose their jobs, go slightly mad from being alone all the time, as long as you are safe and things are done to suit you then all is well?

The point being made is that "personal responsibility" does not pass muster with a societal issue.

Most contributors are happy to look back and complain about what has happened, but no-one will look forward, I guess because they realise just how impossible it is to predict something when you don't know what is around the corner and they simply aren't brave enough.

I think it is irresponsible to relax restrictions to zero at a point where the virus is entirely out of control, doubling every ~10 days.

A policy to relax further once the delta wave is at a peak would be sensible. That would likely only be a short period of time, but if it weren't, it would be vindicated.

I also think we should be vaccinating children 12-17 ASAP.

Let's take a look at some other countries. All have high vaccination rates. One of these is continuing some restrictions. One is reintroducing some minor restrictions. One is removing all restrictions.

They are brave enough to be abusive

Glass houses and all that.

 

[DCLane]

@PK99 - true, but my 16yo was at home unable to do any track training. We talked it through and their processes were exemplary. If they weren't we wouldn't have taken part. We got involved when they wanted to go from 6 to 10 riders, most of whom were my son's team, with very clear instructions - even at the highest number we weren't above 16 and kept carefully apart.

The guidelines for track training/racing have participants separated apart from the track time where you're moving fast through the air. BC's limit is 30 currently, less if they can't be effectively spaced during non-track periods.

Anyway, this is now off-topic. Back to vaccines ...

 

[roubaixtuesday]

If this is the government‘s plan then I hope they are keeping a close eye out on variants and also are prepared to slam the borders shut.

That made me laugh. I'm not sure if you have in mind protecting the UK or protecting the rest of the world.

We currently have not far off the highest prevalence in the world and are likely to get there soon with our current growth rate, though of course that assumes equal case ascertainment with is admittedly very unlikely. Nevertheless, alongside a highly vaccinated population this is literally a perfect way to generate new vaccine resistant variants.

 

[purpan]

Have you had a vaccine at all, just wondering about your thoughts on the protection it offers?

I don't know what CLL is, sorry.

vaccinated, yes, both doses. I feel it offers considerable protection, but it needs widespread takeup to reduce the prevalence of mutations.
CLL is a type of leukaemia. It’s at a benign stage at the moment.