COVID Vaccine !

[lane]

You are probably right but that is not the message the Government are sending. Once all the 25 million are vacinated surely deaths will be at a much lower level rather than still scarily high - but not sure what you count as scarily high

"The “majority” of vulnerable people in the UK will be vaccinated throughout January and February, the government has said, as authorities prepare to rollout the first available doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.
Around 25 million people are covered by the 10 priority categories set out by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI)."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-uk-doses-latest-b1767500.html

 

[marinyork]

My point is that severe asthma is included in group 6 and group 4 which doesn't make sense or appear very clear.

There is overlap. Severe asthma in group 6 is pretty small percentage as group 6 is so large though.

The graphic is just meant to show the task. A million jabs a week, where each person needs a 2nd jab after 21 days and only a good level of protection 28 days after the first, would suggest people in their 70s and category 4 may be getting the jab sometime in February and have a good level of protection end of February/March . We're not doing anything like a million jabs a week .

Another not incidental point on the severe asthma is that quite a numerically large number is children, who won't be given the vaccine, not yet at least.

 

[lane]

I don't understand why there is overlap. When all this kicked off I looked into it because I have asthma. People with severe asthma are a defined group with specific definition (does not include me btw). These people were on the shielding list and classed as extremely vulnerable. Therefore they will be classed as group 4. I don't understand how they can also be in group 6. Never mind it doesn't effect me anyway.

I thought people with asthma would be in group 6 because they were originally (and and still are I believe) classed as vulnerable as it included all eligible for the flu job. No based on what you have said this is incorrect and I can't see them in the list for group 6.

The British Lung Foundation says

"We are asking whether people who are considered ‘clinically vulnerable’ – for example, people with asthma or COPD that is not severe – will be prioritised too"

.

 

[marinyork]

You are probably right but that is not the message the Government are sending. Once all the 25 million are vacinated surely deaths will be at a much lower level rather than still scarily high - but not sure what you count as scarily high

"The “majority” of vulnerable people in the UK will be vaccinated throughout January and February, the government has said, as authorities prepare to rollout the first available doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech jab.
Around 25 million people are covered by the 10 priority categories set out by the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI)."

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/covid-vaccine-uk-doses-latest-b1767500.html

There's an element of unclearness though. And that's because Bojo wants to keep tory MPs and the public on board over Christmas and January for the tiers.

It depends what they mean by vulnerable. When I saw this last week in various other sources I assumed they meant that by the end of february 50.1% of people down to category 4 will have had their first jab. I agree that may happen and is in fact pretty likely to happen. But it's making something sound better than it really is.

Which is a completely different thing to saying 50.1% of those in categories 1-9 will have had both doses of a vaccine by the end of February . That's doable, we'd really be in a decent place sooner if it happen. Just given the more recent updates on supply from BioNTech, I'm sceptical. Some of the later noises from the NHS were longer timelines.

I'm aware of the 99% deaths figure. What I'd say on that is that say we agreed all 9 categories have their 2nd doses by 23rd April, then from May they have a good level of protection. Hospitalisations lag around 2 weeks after infection and deaths about a month later. So to me that says a huge number of deaths by around end of May would cease. By May transmission should be coming down anyway. Again that's very different from expecting the deaths down in February. The Whitty said he was quite sceptical about deaths coming down fast in february.

 

[Julia9054]

My point is that severe asthma is included in group 6 and group 4 which doesn't make sense or appear very clear.

The clinical definition of severe asthma is fairly useless as it relies on noting frequency and severity of symptoms when not on medication. Most people who have asthma won’t really know if they have been on preventive medication for years. I would certainly not risk stopping my medication to see what my symptoms might be like these days.
A more useful distinguisher would be how well controlled the asthma is with medication. A very small percentage of patients have poorly controlled asthma no matter what combination of medication is tried.
In terms of whether people with asthma were advised to shield (group 4), the distinguishing factors appear to have been, number of recent courses of oral steroids, number of recent hospitalisations and maximum dose of inhaled steroids.
i agree it’s not clear

 

[lane]

I don't think that is correct @Julia9054 . This the definition I have read:

"Someone with ‘severe asthma’ has a specific type of asthma which doesn’t get better with the usual medicines. (my bold)

Even if someone takes those medicines exactly as prescribed, a different approach is needed to control symptoms and reduce frequent asthma attacks.

Other causes and triggers for the symptoms have also been ruled out as much as possible.file:///C:/Users/Deborah/Documents/...s Severe Asthma ENDNOTED JK for AW.docx#_edn1

Around 4 out of 100 people with asthma have severe asthma, which is about 200,000 people in the UK. "

 

[lane]

There's an element of unclearness though. And that's because Bojo wants to keep tory MPs and the public on board over Christmas and January for the tiers.

It depends what they mean by vulnerable. When I saw this last week in various other sources I assumed they meant that by the end of february 50.1% of people down to category 4 will have had their first jab. I agree that may happen and is in fact pretty likely to happen. But it's making something sound better than it really is.

Which is a completely different thing to saying 50.1% of those in categories 1-9 will have had both doses of a vaccine by the end of February . That's doable, we'd really be in a decent place sooner if it happen. Just given the more recent updates on supply from BioNTech, I'm sceptical. Some of the later noises from the NHS were longer timelines.

I'm aware of the 99% deaths figure. What I'd say on that is that say we agreed all 9 categories have their 2nd doses by 23rd April, then from May they have a good level of protection. Hospitalisations lag around 2 weeks after infection and deaths about a month later. So to me that says a huge number of deaths by around end of May would cease. By May transmission should be coming down anyway. Again that's very different from expecting the deaths down in February. The Whitty said he was quite sceptical about deaths coming down fast in february.

Yes that makes a lot of sense

 

[Julia9054]

I don't think that is correct @Julia9054 . This the definition I have read:

"Someone with ‘severe asthma’ has a specific type of asthma which doesn’t get better with the usual medicines. (my bold)

Even if someone takes those medicines exactly as prescribed, a different approach is needed to control symptoms and reduce frequent asthma attacks.

Other causes and triggers for the symptoms have also been ruled out as much as possible.file:///C:/Users/Deborah/Documents/Asthma UK/New folder (2)/What is Severe Asthma ENDNOTED JK for AW.docx#_edn1

Around 4 out of 100 people with asthma have severe asthma, which is about 200,000 people in the UK. "

Which makes more sense, thanks.

 

[marinyork]

Around 4 out of 100 people with asthma have severe asthma, which is about 200,000 people in the UK. "

The reason for the around, is it's debated, there are numbers that are lower and higher than that. As said a non-coincidental point on this, a fairly sizeable number of people with severe asthma are under 16. The usual quoted figure for severe asthma is usually slightly higher than that, but it's a not a large proportion of group 4.

One of the issues here is making a comparison with the flu jab. It's a very bad idea for politicians to make a link between flu vaccine eligibility and covid-19. There is a lot of overlap, but it's going to cause the government way more issues than it's worth doing. Vulnerable is also a parlance and political word, so mix up clinically vurnerable, clinically extremely vulnerable, vulnerable and so on in political and medical landscapes and you're in big trouble.

 

[kingrollo]

I'm in group 4 and bald -I expect mine within the next 7 days

 

[midlife]

At work our vaccine booking has gone from email occupational health to download the app to don't contact us we will contact you you sometime.......

 

[Adam4868]

My dad who's had Covid and is in his 80s hasn't had anything to say when yet Sorry I'm out the loop on when or how you hear ? Would it make a difference that he's had Covid ?

 

[lane]

How you hear - my dad got a phone call.

 

[lane]

My dad is over 90 got a call last week

 

[tom73]

My dad who's had Covid and is in his 80s hasn't had anything to say when yet Sorry I'm out the loop on when or how you hear ? Would it make a difference that he's had Covid ?

Your Dad need's not to anything they will contact him when they are able to offer him one locally. Either via his GP or Hospital if he's due an outpatients appointment. As for having had covid they don't know enough yet about the vaccine. It will become a lot more clearer with more real life vaccine data.