COVID Vaccine !

[mjr]

There are 9 protected characteristics where you can claim discrimination, "no Covid vaccination" is not on the list.

No, but while vaccination has been restricted by age and disability, and while takeup differs by race and nationality, then "no covid vaccination" is effectively a proxy for several protected characteristics.

So-called "vaccine passports" would be discriminatory until vaccination is available to all.

 

[midlife]

No, but while vaccination has been restricted by age and disability, and while takeup differs by race and nationality, then "no covid vaccination" is effectively a proxy for several protected characteristics.

So-called "vaccine passports" would be discriminatory until vaccination is available to all.

Is the second paragraph illegal?

https://travel.saga.co.uk/travel-updates/coronavirus-holidays-guests.aspx

 

[mjr]

Is the second paragraph illegal?

https://travel.saga.co.uk/travel-updates/coronavirus-holidays-guests.aspx

It is important to note the following paragraph where operations are suspended until May, by which time I think the currently-age-limited vaccination is expected to be available to all of their potential customers, so it is not age discrimination.

They also will allow travel by those who cannot have the vaccine, according to https://travel.saga.co.uk/travel-updates/holidays-coronavirus-vaccine.aspx so it is not disability discrimination.

I think they may be open to accusations of racism but I would not like to say if it is illegal or not. Wait for the courts?

 

[fossyant]

The covid jab conspiracy theories are interesting but, as I read elsewhere, what exactly was Bill Gates planning to do on his first day in control of 90 year old Margaret from Coventry?

He'll be making doubly sure the oldies vote Conservative again

 

[Pale Rider]

He'll be making doubly sure the oldies vote Conservative again

I expect 90-year-old Margaret from Coventry will be pleased just to make it to the next General Election.

 

[midlife]

It is important to note the following paragraph where operations are suspended until May, by which time I think the currently-age-limited vaccination is expected to be available to all of their potential customers, so it is not age discrimination.

They also will allow travel by those who cannot have the vaccine, according to https://travel.saga.co.uk/travel-updates/holidays-coronavirus-vaccine.aspx so it is not disability discrimination.

I think they may be open to accusations of racism but I would not like to say if it is illegal or not. Wait for the courts?

Tricky one isn't it. I guess if there comes a time when you can "buy" the vaccine it might be different?

 

[mjr]

Tricky one isn't it. I guess if there comes a time when you can "buy" the vaccine it might be different?

I don't see how that would change the race-correlated hesitancy aspect?

And vaccines for sale before general availability would be a big can of worms I hope isn't opened in the UK.

 

[Deleted User]

An astonishingly selfish attitude showing scant regard for society and those you live and work with.

A few hours out of your day to help tackle a pandemic is asking nothing of you.

What's your thoughts on the BAME folks apparently refusing the jab, considering many work in the care home industry, whether those have refused I'm unsure.

 

[mjr]

I wonder how many care home workers refuse either due to fears of time off unpaid from side effects or pressure from managers for similar, rather than any scepticism.

 

[marinyork]

I think they may be open to accusations of racism but I would not like to say if it is illegal or not. Wait for the courts?

Whether it is illegal or not a large organisation needs to be sharper and consider things. I think a test in a court would hone in like an eagle on the word "guidance" whilst simultaneously using the words "must" elsewhere and particularly when trying to defend things the words "full immunity". I don't think they'd be amused by people saying it was available to the rest of the population when it blatantly was likely not after May for some time. Judges in discrimination cases tend to consider quite vague statements like this and what they actually mean in real life. In a discrimination case the burden is on the provider or employer and it seems to me an unnecessarily high hurdle to jump of their own making!

Whether it is illegal will come down to other things like whether it's proportionate. An organised cruise ship with 2000 people on board for two weeks organised by a large company is completely different to a set of small holiday homes with people kept separately run by small businesses. Are there alternatives?

It's worth saying that contrary to what many people say that many discrimination cases for covid will likely be harassment and victimisation rather than necessarily other things.

 

[SkipdiverJohn]

The issue of low ethnic minority take-up rates is not just confined to people of working age. It goes much deeper than that. It's the "whitest" parts of the country that have made the most progress in administering the vaccine. The worst performing place when I last checked was Greater London, which also has the most ethnic population.

 

[Deleted User]

I wonder how many care home workers refuse either due to fears of time off unpaid from side effects or pressure from managers for similar, rather than any scepticism.

I wonder, and the non care home workers or just the ' not having it ' one's?

No less impacting than our skip driving refusee's.

 

[marinyork]

I wonder how many care home workers refuse either due to fears of time off unpaid from side effects or pressure from managers for similar, rather than any scepticism.

Yes. I expect having had to interact with care home and support workers in previous roles and jobs that there are a variety of reasons.

Mass vaccination centres can be far away, when booking we were offered the one in this city or 20 miles away. This is the sort of travel setup that can be problematic for care workers. This is in an ultra urban area too! The mass vaccination slots may not necessarily suit care worker shifts quite as much as people think but it's not a black or white thing.

There are quite a few fertility rumours doing the rounds, which I've heard off people myself the last six months for women in their late 20s and early 30s. It's not really cyclechat's thing, but a recent guardian article highlighted (it wasn't talking about the vaccine) saying about singletons and time marching on particularly for women and how people felt which I think some on here would jump on and say this stuff is ridiculous. These are very much things I've heard from singletons in their 20s and 30s by the time we got onto the second wave. Also people feeling quite isolated from the atomic family where much of the covid attention and policy was focussed on so they may dare not voice the views outside their circles.

 

[midlife]

Just curious but are care home staff vaccinated at their place of work along with the residents?

 

[Ajax Bay]

fertility rumours

Find Out Now survey (55k persons): the (age/sex defined) group most likely to refuse the vaccine is currently 18-34 year-old women: 25% v general population's 18% (latter figure seems high cf other surveys).
Think this msn article is a good appraisal of the concerns and facts/evidence/lack of evidence on the likely/possible effect of vaccination on fertility.
Article covers everything but I thought this was a point well worth making:
"There is no reason to expect [a COVID-19 vaccine to have] an effect on fertility: specific research would've been done if there were a plausible reason to expect this being a problem. Instead, the risk of COVID-19 affecting your fertility is far greater." Dr Karan Rajan NHS surgeon, and lecturer at ICL
Some worried that the antibodies developed could attack the placenta as well as the virus. But "if this was going to happen it would've happened when women got the virus originally.
"We have evidence this doesn’t happen, because we are now seeing people becoming pregnant having had COVID-19 in the spring. No one who is serious about vaccines or immunology is worried about this."
Dr Victoria Male, a lecturer in reproductive immunology at ICL