Mo1959
Legendary Member
- Location
- Perthshire,Scotland
The graph seems to shoot up 2 weeks from vaccinating starting! Maybe the elderly aren’t coping with the side effects? Who knows. I’m sure it will be getting monitored. Hope it’s just a sad blip.
COVID Vaccine !
- Thread starter kingrollo
- Start date
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Pale Rider
Legendary Member
On reflection, I may have felt that way the day after I was Pfizered.
However, the reason I'm clinically extremely vulnerable does make me feel that way on some days anyway, so it's hard to assess what's causing what.
One thing's for sure, I am now back to normal, so if the jab had any side effects, they only lasted a day.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Mo
Vaccines typically will not prevent infection (the serious illness or worse sort) until 14 days after vaccination. So using the 14 Dec line (in graph) protection would only kick in on (say) 28 Dec. Maybe the first quintile was done in the first week. Care homes which had outbreaks before the vaccination 'teams' could visit were left till it was safe to visit - hence there were still some not visited late in January.
Given the mean time (?14 days) between infection and, in care home cases, a substantial death rate (tragic and maybe avoidable), the timeline offered by the graph is as you'd expect. It would be great were it better.
I'd also note that that the sole criterion for every death recorded as a 'COVID-19 death', including in care homes, is that the individual tested positive in that last 28 days, whether the primary (or even contributory) cause of death was COVID-19 or not.
Vaccines typically will not prevent infection (the serious illness or worse sort) until 14 days after vaccination. So using the 14 Dec line (in graph) protection would only kick in on (say) 28 Dec. Maybe the first quintile was done in the first week. Care homes which had outbreaks before the vaccination 'teams' could visit were left till it was safe to visit - hence there were still some not visited late in January.
Given the mean time (?14 days) between infection and, in care home cases, a substantial death rate (tragic and maybe avoidable), the timeline offered by the graph is as you'd expect. It would be great were it better.
I'd also note that that the sole criterion for every death recorded as a 'COVID-19 death', including in care homes, is that the individual tested positive in that last 28 days, whether the primary (or even contributory) cause of death was COVID-19 or not.
Julia9054
Guru
- Location
- Knaresborough
If you have recently had covid, is there a length of time you have to leave it before being vaccinated?
Pale Rider
Legendary Member
Not heard of one being specified.
When I was jabbed, the only medical question was had I had any recent injections.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
Aren't most of the vaccinees so far retired?
I'm just wondering at what point of vaccination the old fart MPs will throw the under-50s under the big red bus and unlock too far, because the u50s won't die and "only" risk being crippled by long covid.
28 days post infection
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
Barely. According to the latest stats (from https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-vaccinations/) there have been 5 million vaccines in the 70+ agegroups and 3 million in the under-70s. I'd expect the vast majority of the under-70s who've been done to be of working age.
You can't assume everyone in care home or even a home visit is at the time of the visit medically fit to have the vaccine.
You can't assume every thing will go as planned it's not jab and go service. Number of jabs my look great on spread sheet but real people are not like that. They have care needs dedicated HCP's are not interested in in out and off to the next job. Many of the ones they are visiting for vaccinations. Have not seen anyone for months or seen the GP or Nurse face to face. Do you think they are not going to see and talk about how they've been going.
You can't assume either that any of the extra cost inc this and the current payment have to date covered the cost of this.
Save ££ and numbers for spread sheets and leave HCP'S to do the job of caring for ones in need.
You can't assume every thing will go as planned it's not jab and go service. Number of jabs my look great on spread sheet but real people are not like that. They have care needs dedicated HCP's are not interested in in out and off to the next job. Many of the ones they are visiting for vaccinations. Have not seen anyone for months or seen the GP or Nurse face to face. Do you think they are not going to see and talk about how they've been going.
You can't assume either that any of the extra cost inc this and the current payment have to date covered the cost of this.
Save ££ and numbers for spread sheets and leave HCP'S to do the job of caring for ones in need.
srw
It's a bit more complicated than that...
You're right. Nurse bank rates are around £20 an hour (in the daytime), which means a total cost of employment around £40 allowing for agency fees and other on-costs - pensions, insurance, back-office staff etc. So £25 buys about 35 minutes of a nurse's time for a GP practice. Of that, 15 minutes is taken up by waiting afterwards and maybe 2 for actually delivering the vaccine. That leaves about 8 minutes each way for travel. That might be feasible in a small market town like the one I live in, but not in a city or rural area.
Discussion of care homes is a red herring - most care home residents have already been done. From here on in it's immobile vulnerable people living in their own homes.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
From the NHS Green Book Ch 14a
Precautions
Minor illnesses without fever or systemic upset are not valid reasons to postpone immunisation. If an individual is acutely unwell, immunisation may be postponed until they have fully recovered. This is to avoid confusing the differential diagnosis of any acute illness (including COVID-19) by wrongly attributing any signs or symptoms to the adverse effects of the vaccine.
There is no evidence of any safety concerns from vaccinating individuals with a past history of COVID-19 infection, or with detectable COVID-19 antibody.
Vaccination of individuals who may be infected or asymptomatic or incubating COVID-19 infection is unlikely to have a detrimental effect on the illness.
Vaccination should be deferred in those with confirmed infection to avoid confusing the differential diagnosis. As clinical deterioration can occur up to two weeks after infection, ideally vaccination should be deferred until clinical recovery to around four weeks after onset of symptoms or four weeks from the first confirmed positive specimen in those who are asymptomatic.
(Re-)Reading that its thrust seems to be that 'they' would rather avoid vaccinating and then having diagnoses/outcomes attributed to the vaccine in error; rather than because vaccination is any less effective if the person has C19. This avoidance also mitigates the risk of the vaccination team being at increased proximity hazard - even with mandated PPE.
But the commenters above are the professionals: '28 days'.
That's at the cheeper end can be more
It may take the 8 mins to do the pre checks and talk though any worries they have or questions about it.
Then you have travel cost , the extra PPE cost and clinical waste bill. So it's not as great as many think but as long as the number of jabs go's up every day as it looks good and that's what matter. Sod any idea of care jab and go and coin it in.
Ajax Bay
Guru
- Location
- East Devon
Will GP surgeries being covering their costs (at least) on the tens of millions of younger (under 65) adults who will need two jabs (£25) and probably a booster (?£10+) annually?
Do GP surgeries incur a loss giving the flu jabs annually (including QOF stuff)?
Who has suggested this?
