COVID Vaccine !

[PK99]

Will GP surgeries being covering their costs (at least) on the tens of millions of younger (under 65) adults who will need two jabs (£25) and probably a booster (?£10+) annually?
Do GP surgeries incur a loss giving the flu jabs annually (including QOF stuff)?

Who has suggested this?

A pharmacist is paid £10.08 for each flu jab

https://www.pharmaceutical-journal....in-2020/2021/20208362.article?firstPass=false

From my observation when receiving jabs over a number of years, the marginal labour cost of giving a flu jab is zero, as one of the team on duty simply pops into the side room with me and 5 minutes later is back on normal duties.

 

[srw]

From my observation when receiving jabs over a number of years, the marginal labour cost of giving a flu jab is zero, as one of the team on duty simply pops into the side room with me and 5 minutes later is back on normal duties.

That might be true for sporadic visitors and for flu - although any decent business will know the opportunity cost of doing it. But this is one of those cases where there are diseconomies of scale. You can't simply expect one of the team on duty to slip into a back room if you've got a constant stream of vaccinees throughout the day and have to observe them for 15 minutes afterwards.

 

[nickyboy]

Discussion of care homes is a red herring - most care home residents have already been done. From here on in it's immobile vulnerable people living in their own homes.

Not correct. The £10 mentioned today has been paid since the beginning of January for every care home resident vaccinated. So GP practices have done pretty well financially in that period as a result.

Have no idea of the numbers but imagine 20 vaccinations in a care home. That's £500 income. You can monitor those who have had the jab while you do others. Can't be more than a couple of hours on site

Now comes for the quid pro quo. They've made good money on care homes but they're going to have to accept the same payment regime for home visits

 

[Pale Rider]

home visits

If you suggested a home visit to my GP he would probably report you for patient/doctor abuse.

 

[Landsurfer]

If you suggested a home visit to my GP he would probably report you for patient/doctor abuse.

My dentist .... “Why has Boris closed the Golf courses ?” ...... "To get the Dentists back to work” ..... Really ....

 

[tom73]

Not correct. The £10 mentioned today has been paid since the beginning of January for every care home resident vaccinated. So GP practices have done pretty well financially in that period as a result.

Have no idea of the numbers but imagine 20 vaccinations in a care home. That's £500 income. You can monitor those who have had the jab while you do others. Can't be more than a couple of hours on site

Now comes for the quid pro quo. They've made good money on care homes but they're going to have to accept the same payment regime for home visits

How ? If you think they have been coining it in going vaccinations. Tell you what let's get Dido and her mates in to do it. Then see who coins it in. Or better still bring in some of the T&T consultants currently on a £1000 a day to improve efficiency of the vaccine roll out.
You can't carry on and monitor at the same time that assumes they are all in the same room.
Why stop at that get them to go round with tea trolly at the same time seeng it's it so simple.
You just don't get how much extra time and work this involves to do it in safe and Clinical effective way.
It's clear also just how worthless you see highly trained clinicians.

 

[midlife]

That might be true for sporadic visitors and for flu - although any decent business will know the opportunity cost of doing it. But this is one of those cases where there are diseconomies of scale. You can't simply expect one of the team on duty to slip into a back room if you've got a constant stream of vaccinees throughout the day and have to observe them for 15 minutes afterwards.

Don't think the AZ vaccine needs any observation time afterwards if that's what they have been given.

 

[nickyboy]

How ? If you think they have been coining it in going vaccinations. Tell you what let's get Dido and her mates in to do it. Then see who coins it in. Or better still bring in some of the T&T consultants currently on a £1000 a day to improve efficiency of the vaccine roll out.
You can't carry on and monitor at the same time that assumes they are all in the same room.
Why stop at that get them to go round with tea trolly at the same time seeng it's it so simple.
You just don't get how much extra time and work this involves to do it in safe and Clinical effective way.
It's clear also just how worthless you see highly trained clinicians.

Well after that rather bizarre rant I should make it clear that I value highly trained clinicians. It was you that said they're being paid £10 to do home visits and that doesn't cover the costs.

But you failed to mentuon that it isn't £10, it is £25 per vaccine administered. And it's been running since beginning of Jan during which time they've been doing the care homes which is where the jam is.

 

[Pale Rider]

My dentist .... “Why has Boris closed the Golf courses ?” ...... "To get the Dentists back to work” ..... Really ....

Another point is I reckon it most unlikely the GP will do any of the home visits himself.

Regrettably, I've had recent experience of home service - every visit was done by a district nurse.

Throughout Covid, my GP has remained behind literally locked surgery doors.

He's all but declined to see any patients in the surgery, let alone do any home visits.

 

[rualexander]

I would rather have had a couple of years to ensure there’s no unexpected long term side effects.

On that basis, no-one would ever have been vaccinated against anything.
There's nothing stopping you from leaving it a couple of years before you take the plunge though.
I'm not aware of any previous vaccines which have resulted in unexpected long term side effects?
There's a reason for the length of the clinical trial safety assessment phase, that's the time scale that they would expect to find any significant safety issues.

 

[midlife]

On that basis, no-one would ever have been vaccinated against anything.
There's nothing stopping you from leaving it a couple of years before you take the plunge though.
I'm not aware of any previous vaccines which have resulted in unexpected long term side effects?
There's a reason for the length of the clinical trial safety assessment phase, that's the time scale that they would expect to find any significant safety issues.

This is the only vaccine disaster I can think of being taught about

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-55050012

Aside from rare Guillain-Barré syndrome.

 

[Ajax Bay]

you failed to mention that it isn't £10, it is £25 per vaccine administered.

Let's keep it close to the facts (and you have earlier). @tom73's approach is more qualitative than quantitative - it would good to have a view of whether GPs have carried out vaccinations sessions at care homes at a loss these last 6 weeks. I hope the fee recompenses them and the surgery properly.
Each fee for every care home resident (and care home staff) vaccinated on site has been remunerated by a fee of £22.58 (not £25) per head. The economies of scale hopefully mean that that fee more than covers the various additional costs.
Now that same amount per head is the fee to deliver a single dose by home visit. I can quite see that that will be revenue negative - as @tom73 said in his initial two-liner (which highlighted the £10 without mentioning the normal issue of service fee).
I guess that there has been a tremendous bonus for GPs to be involved in the care home sessions as they will have been able to see their patients (ie those on the surgery's books - less those who have tragically died in the last year) at last. And the same opportunity for home visits to immobile/housebound this month.

.

 

[tom73]

Another point is I reckon it most unlikely the GP will do any of the home visits himself.

Regrettably, I've had recent experience of home service - every visit was done by a district nurse.

Throughout Covid, my GP has remained behind literally locked surgery doors.

He's all but declined to see any patients in the surgery, let alone do any home visits.

So you think a DN is any cheeper ? Like a GP it’s a specialised practice. Who ever go’s and do them the extra costs still are not covered.

 

[tom73]

Well after that rather bizarre rant I should make it clear that I value highly trained clinicians. It was you that said they're being paid £10 to do home visits and that doesn't cover the costs.

But you failed to mentuon that it isn't £10, it is £25 per vaccine administered. And it's been running since beginning of Jan during which time they've been doing the care homes which is where the jam is.

I failed to mention anything the £10 extra is the only thing being reported this morning.
As it happens i willl seeing with a number of GP’s tomorrow on patient transport call out’s. So I can check if this is the case
My post still stands yet again you believe they are coining it. To believe any HCP is some how making money out of any of this Covid horror show is not worth anymore of my time on it. Neither is the person making it. The only ones coining it are Dido , Serco and the many others all of which have failed to do even the basics right.

 

[tom73]

Don't think the AZ vaccine needs any observation time afterwards if that's what they have been given.

Mrs 73 still had to wait for 15 mins after her’s a few days ago.