COVID Vaccine !

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Unkraut

Master of the Inane Comment
Location
Germany
'The best advert for Brexit': European press reacts to EU Covid vaccine row | Coronavirus | The Guardian" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/31/european-press-reacts-eu-covid-vaccine-row

Seems the EU press are holding the EU accountable and not the UK, which they acknowledge has done a better job on vaccines.
The image of the EU as bureaucratic is of course British standard fayre, Die Welt acknowledged. I think the problem was less this but rather being penny-pinching, and too risk averse leading to being slow to order. The British took a risk by emergency authorisation, the question remains whether the EU or individual member states should have done the same thing in view of the infection rate. I also wonder if the process of authorisation was unnecessarily slow, but there needs to be actual evidence of this, not prejudice.

The Die Welt article the Guardian linked to was rightly critical of von der Leyen. It also referenced Boris Johnson posing as a statesman waxing lyrical about the wonders that can be achieved by international cooperation and working together. I found this beyond irony.

The comments section was absolutely scathing about von der Leyen, and her competence in particular.

The really odd thing is is that she is anglophile.
The UK has a head start, but it's by no means beyond the realms of possibility that this could have turned out the other way around, should the worst problems have been here rather than Belgium.

A little more empathy towards those on the continent whose hopes have been dashed and whose vulnerable will die as result would not go amiss.
Talking of empathy, I saw some footage on the news from a British hospital, and suddenly and unexpectedly found myself very moved, I found myself thinking it shouldn't be like this. It's not always so different elsewhere, but it's home and the tragedy of the infection rate, the numbers of ill people, the strain on the staff and death toll just hit home.

I'm not sure hopes have been dashed on the continent, more delayed, but I for one feel very narked that all the massive effort to get the infection rate down and try to help the economy has been lightly thrown away by von der Leyen and/or others responsible. I'm not sure how much better the supply situation would have been had the EU acted more quickly, over 3 months 'late' ordering is a long time, but it's galling to think that better progress really could have been made by now.
 

rualexander

Legendary Member
I have had the Oxford vaccine today. I was warned about headache and I have taken two paracetamol.It has stopped,arm aches little bit.
Potentially better not to take anything if you can put up with the discomfort, your immune system may respond better to the vaccine without being interfered with by anti-inflammatory/antipyretic medicines.
 

IaninSheffield

Veteran
Location
Sheffield, UK
Potentially better not to take anything if you can put up with the discomfort, your immune system may respond better to the vaccine without being interfered with by anti-inflammatory/antipyretic medicines.
Advice from one medical practice states:
"Will paracetamol effect the response?
If you do get troubling symptoms such as fever or pain it is ok to take paracetamol in the usual doses as required. Fever can be seen with the AstraZeneca (Oxford) vaccine but they report that paracetamol use does not affect the subsequent immune response."

However, advice from the CDC:
"Antipyretic or analgesic medications (e.g., acetaminophen, non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) may be taken for the treatment of post-vaccination local or systemic symptoms, if medically appropriate. However, routine prophylactic administration of these medications for the purpose of preventing post-vaccination symptoms is not currently recommended, as information on the impact of such use on mRNA COVID-19 vaccine-induced antibody responses is not available at this time."

My reading would be that you are OK to take the medication if you're showing symptoms, though not as a preventative measure?
 
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SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
The image of the EU as bureaucratic is of course British standard fayre, Die Welt acknowledged. I think the problem was less this but rather being penny-pinching, and too risk averse leading to being slow to order. The British took a risk by emergency authorisation, the question remains whether the EU or individual member states should have done the same thing in view of the infection rate. I also wonder if the process of authorisation was unnecessarily slow, but there needs to be actual evidence of this, not prejudice.

The Die Welt article the Guardian linked to was rightly critical of von der Leyen. It also referenced Boris Johnson posing as a statesman waxing lyrical about the wonders that can be achieved by international cooperation and working together. I found this beyond irony.

The comments section was absolutely scathing about von der Leyen, and her competence in particular.

The really odd thing is is that she is anglophile.

Talking of empathy, I saw some footage on the news from a British hospital, and suddenly and unexpectedly found myself very moved, I found myself thinking it shouldn't be like this. It's not always so different elsewhere, but it's home and the tragedy of the infection rate, the numbers of ill people, the strain on the staff and death toll just hit home.

I'm not sure hopes have been dashed on the continent, more delayed, but I for one feel very narked that all the massive effort to get the infection rate down and try to help the economy has been lightly thrown away by von der Leyen and/or others responsible. I'm not sure how much better the supply situation would have been had the EU acted more quickly, over 3 months 'late' ordering is a long time, but it's galling to think that better progress really could have been made by now.


I take no heart in the situation on the continent but it does seem to me to be an indicator that this is, and has been, a very difficult situation for the respective parties to deal with that relegates politics to the sidelines. I think it is unfair, and easy, to cast blame on the individuals at the top of the various organisations involved in trying to stem the virus both here and in Europe etc.

Imo every Government, political organisation, medical etc body will probably have made poor judgement calls, as well as getting many right, by the end of the pandemic.

The major post-pandemic outcome will be that, hopefully, we will all be better prepared for if/when a future pandemic hits us. And that's what will really matter then - not the political bile that will have been spilt along the way.
 

SpokeyDokey

68, & my GP says I will officially be old at 70!
Moderator
Not slowing but also no longer accelerating as necessary to hit the 15 Feb target. Let's hope it picks up?

As I said upthread; I'm not particularly worried about the 15 million being hit or not, my guess is that it will be there or thereabouts.

The upside of stretching targets is that it does spur people on (unless they are ludicrously high) but the downside is that, especially in situations where politics is in play, is that it fuels political capital if they are not met.

To my mind it doesn't matter whether we hit 14, 15 or 16 million - wherever we get to by the 15th will be as a result of a fantastic effort by everyone involved.

And more important than the numbers and politics; will be the fact that so many of our most vulnerable will have a level of protection against the virus beyond our wildest dreams for most of last year.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
Not slowing but also no longer accelerating as necessary to hit the 15 Feb target. Let's hope it picks up?

I believe an average of about 400,000 a day is needed to hit the target.

Most days I've seen figures for have been above that.

My bet is the target will be exceeded, at least in terms of simple numbers.

Some people getting two jabs may mean not everyone in priority level four is offered a vaccine by mid-February.

What is certain is that all the bold assertions made on here a month ago about the impossibility of the target were well wide of the mark.
 
Location
London
Just had to add this thread back to my alerts as it seemed to have dropped off.
What a joy to find a useful thread on "stuff happening at the mo" that doesn't seem to have descended to narkiness/point scoring/personal agendas (unless I've missed something in my absence).
Roll on the jabs - wonderful performance by all concerned.
 

Pale Rider

Legendary Member
I don't recall those, Paley? Could you link a couple? Or is it possible you've misremembered?

How about this from @srw:

This stretch is utterly ludicrous. It is ridiculous. It is a figment of the imagination of a few advisors in Whitehall who have never had to deal with the messy reality of actually getting drugs into people's arms.

Looks like a bold assertion to me, and there were plenty of similar ones from others.

A cautionary tale for all those on here who immediately slag off every government policy before it has even started.
 

Ajax Bay

Guru
Location
East Devon
Nigh on 9 million done by Saturday and a huge c600 000 on the day (Saturday) itself - doesn't look like the rollout is slowing down. Let's hope that this continues at the same pace.
Not slowing but also no longer accelerating as necessary to hit the 15 Feb target. Let's hope it picks up?
I can only assume that my Saturday assessment was not sufficiently clear, or that the maths is too difficult (for you).
The daily rate 7-day average (we shouldn't focus on one particular day of the week) is now increasing.
Here's the graph:
1612177267866.png

But even if the rate was flat, we'd hit the 15 Feb target.
Allow me to quote (from Saturday's sitrep/estimate) and update:
Target = Offer everyone in Groups 1-4 a first vaccination by 15 Feb "the government's highly ambitious target"( @srw phrase quoted)
Number estimates seem to vary but say total 15M. Reduce that by 20% 'offered but refused' = 12M. Add a million for 'bias'/offered = 13M doses
Data below from: https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/vaccinations
"As at 29 Jan total first doses: 8,378,940 (in arms, not 'offered')" - @ 31 Jan = 8,997,329
"Daily = 365,656 (7-day average) (first doses, in arms, not 'offered')" - @ 31 Jan = 374kpd (daily figure will likely drop Mon-Wed)
"Number of days till 15 Feb = 15 (say, could be 16 or even 17)" - @ 31 Jan = 14
"Reasonable estimate of next fortnight capability - 5,484,840" - @ 31 Jan 14 days @ 374kpd = 5.2M
"Reasonable estimate of numbers of first doses administered by 15 Feb = 13.8M" - revised @ 31 Jan = 14.2M doses
The vaccination rate doesn't need to "improve" as @srw put it, nor "accelerate" as @mjr puts it, to actually overstep its target.

I anticipate that the focus of some grudging appreciators will turn to all the individuals that despite its best efforts, the programme has failed, in care homes, care home workers (a wedge of whom refused first time out, it is reported), NHS staff, over 80s who for some reason have either not been invited for vaccination or there are admin or significant logistic difficulties (and the O/75s and O/70s in the next 12 days).
On this morning's radio the minister said that anyone in care homes who haven't been visited should tell her (by e-mail) and she would personally sort it out (and I believe that is her absolute intent).

BBC Live
Social Care minister Helen Whately says a vaccine has been offered to every care home in England where it was possible for teams to go in. She tells BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "Any care home that hasn't been contacted, just let me know and I will personally follow up. I can be contacted on my ministerial email address." Whately says they are continuing to work through the social care workforce, with the aim of offering a vaccine to all those staff by 15 February.

Reiterate: All those involved in procurement, distribution, storage (at the various levels across the nation), management and delivery (into arms) deserve massive plaudits. This is not a short race though; but by the end of spring the UK should be close to herd immunity (which is of course the overarching aim). Internal transmission will diminish and infections brought in from abroad will not gain a foothold and should be much easier to control, with minimal loss of life or serious illness.
[/QUOTE]
 

roubaixtuesday

self serving virtue signaller
Looks like a bold assertion to me, and there were plenty of similar ones from others.

A cautionary tale for all those on here who immediately slag off every government policy before it has even started.

Cheers Paley.

I had a quick click through adjacent pages, and couldn't find a single other poster supporting that position, so I think "plenty of similar ones from others" is off- beam, though I certainly haven't done any exhaustive research, and you might well be able to prove me wrong fairly easily.

I also think your second paragraph there is a long way off too. This is an example of a policy supported by many on here - myself included- who would be very harshly critical of the current govt across a range of other issues.

You do give the impression of looking for an argument where there really isn't one to be had, to be honest.

I hope you get your own jab ASAP, btw.
 
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