Coronavirus outbreak

[classic33]

I'm not denying anything. The virus is real, to some people it is deadly, and globally it has in reality already taken out several million people, way more than any official figures - and will continue to take out many more millions before its over and done with.
Attempting to generally suppress the virus will not save any lives overall. Deaths will still occur, but over an extended period and additionally from other medical conditions left untreated because all the focus is currently on the virus.
There is no magical "get out of jail free card" with coronavirus. There's no vaccine, even if there was one it might not be that effective either, and you also have the logistical problem of actually getting a good proportion of the population vaccinated. A substantial minority won't accept the vaccine, so what do you do then? Unless you allow people to become infected rather than try to suppress it, the coronavirus is going to circulate for years at some level and it could well mutate significantly over that time, which will cause another big problem. It needs to progress swiftly, and burn itself out as soon as possible.

Does that include the "immunity from catching it a second time"?

 

[marinyork]

Welcome to the Interweb!

Welcome to the world of work and particularly the 'professions'.

 

[tom73]

Student cases don't stay student cases

 

[MarkF]

Regaring prepared space and delayed treatment in spring time, many hospitals never used that additional space/capacity. There was huge spare capacity and large scale staff absenteeism, yet it coped.

It's important to note that "hospitalisations" with Covid actually include patients already in hospital but who contract it there, another manipulation of data. But that's not my point really, I've noticed a big difference between the stats showing this happening between the north and the south. Why should this be? I can see clearly how it happens but I thought it was unavoidable, maybe it isn't?

The current fix an youth (spurious) cases is not logical, it dwarfs the % (of ill/elderly) cases within hospitals, but it's the latter where the deaths will occur.

 

[classic33]

Regaring prepared space and delayed treatment in spring time, many hospitals never used that additional space/capacity. There was huge spare capacity and large scale staff absenteeism, yet it coped.

It's important to note that "hospitalisations" with Covid actually include patients already in hospital but who contract it there, another manipulation of data. But that's not my point really, I've noticed a big difference between the stats showing this happening between the north and the south. Why should this be? I can see clearly how it happens but I thought it was unavoidable, maybe it isn't?

The current fix an youth (spurious) cases is not logical, it dwarfs the % (of ill/elderly) cases within hospitals, but it's the latter where the deaths will occur.

Non-urgent operations were cancelled at BRI. How many of them freed up a bed and the staff required.

Slight manipulation of data.

 

[Joey Shabadoo]

View: https://streamable.com/oift4x

 

[Low Gear Guy]

Student cases don't stay student cases
View attachment 551720

That does not necessarily show the rise being led by the return to school in early September and universities going back at start of October. An increase in student cases would pass initially to workers in retail and then to their relatives with a time gap between the increases in different age groups. The above figures show a big rise in the over eighties from the end of August onwards. People eating out and travelling by plane to other countries is a more likely cause for the initial rise.

 

[Edwardoka]

View: https://streamable.com/oift4x

Everyone knows that when you have someone hooked behind you like that the correct move is a backslide pin: namely, lift them, bend forwards so that they slide down your back into a position where they're being pinned to the floor by their own centre of gravity.

It's possible I've watched too much wrestling.

 

[tom73]

That does not necessarily show the rise being led by the return to school in early September and universities going back at start of October. An increase in student cases would pass initially to workers in retail and then to their relatives with a time gap between the increases in different age groups. The above figures show a big rise in the over eighties from the end of August onwards. People eating out and travelling by plane to other countries is a more likely cause for the initial rise.

Hard to say given the way the government put groups together. What it shows is any source of community transmission will not stay in one place but feeds though to other part of the population. So just letting it rip though student accommodation for example. Won't help everyone else. Or help bring things back under control as some think it will.

 

[classic33]

I think that's a fair point (bolded) but not the primary point in this discussion.

As you are more aware than most, care priorities shift over time and here we are talking about the Covid response. The NHS coped with the caseload back in March/April/May etc and will almost certainly cope again imo should case numbers rise to similar levels - although I'm not currently convinced they will.

Primary care re 'normal' demand is unfortunately suffering but right now what can we realistically do about that?

The situation isn't the same now as it was in March-April. The reason being simple, there's been a glimpse of what might be possible. Even if it does come with preconditions attached, simple albeit not popular with everyone.

The "NHS Heroes" even got two minutes applause on one night of the week to show how much they were being appreciated. That appreciation of how they worked has gone. There's a minority, who having had a taste of what might be available/possible with no restrictions on their behaviour, don't want to give up what they have.

They want the high risk groups, sick and elderly, to be made to isolate/locked up. So that they can now carry on as they did before this started.

Without the support the NHS had from the public in March-April, they can't hope to achieve the same level of response a second time around. The call for a return to "normality", the same as before all this started. The truth is, what ever "normality" comes along, it will never be the same as it was before. No matter how much folk insist it should.

I've mentioned my situation, but for me there's one person I'd love to know how they are doing. Diagnosed with epilepsy in January this year, two seizures in December of last year. With tests started on finding the cause, and possible trigger(s) in January & February. Then this came along.

They'd been told the worse case possible, SUDEP, and their only experience of it was what had been seen on TV programs. The classic grand mal seizure. They'd to surrender their driving license, needed for work. So job security was a major concern for them. If like myself, they've found themselves with no routine medical tests done to find the cause. How have they managed over the last half year.

 

[pawl]

The situation isn't the same now as it was in March-April. The reason being simple, there's been a glimpse of what might be possible. Even if it does come with preconditions attached, simple albeit not popular with everyone.

The "NHS Heroes" even got two minutes applause on one night of the week to show how much they were being appreciated. That appreciation of how they worked has gone. There's a minority, who having had a taste of what might be available/possible with no restrictions on their behaviour, don't want to give up what they have.

They want the high risk groups, sick and elderly, to be made to isolate/locked up. So that they can now carry on as they did before this started.

Without the support the NHS had from the public in March-April, they can't hope to achieve the same level of response a second time around. The call for a return to "normality", the same as before all this started. The truth is, what ever "normality" comes along, it will never be the same as it was before. No matter how much folk insist it should.

I've mentioned my situation, but for me there's one person I'd love to know how they are doing. Diagnosed with epilepsy in January this year, two seizures in December of last year. With tests started on finding the cause, and possible trigger(s) in January & February. Then this came along.

They'd been told the worse case possible, SUDEP, and their only experience of it was what had been seen on TV programs. The classic grand mal seizure. They'd to surrender their driving license, needed for work. So job security was a major concern for them. If like myself, they've found themselves with no routine medical tests done to find the cause. How have they managed over the last half year.

I didn’t want to put a like for your post as I didn’t feel it to be appropriate I do sympathise with your feelings having worked with people with epilepsy.Many people do not understand epilepsy As recently as the early -1980 it was considered to be a mental health problem rather than a neurological condition many patients.being incarcerated on acute psychiatric wards

 

[classic33]

I didn’t want to put a like for your post as I didn’t feel it to be appropriate I do sympathise with your feelings having worked with people with epilepsy.Many people do not understand epilepsy As recently as the early -1980 it was considered to be a mental health problem rather than a neurological condition many patients.being incarcerated on acute psychiatric wards

Born with it myself, but for someone to get told that they now "have it", then the last six months on top of it, can't have been easy. Especially if treatment was stopped for them.

Just been told that, then having treatment stopped so early can't have been easy. On top of the new diagnosis they'll have found themselves in the high risk group. Two unknowns to deal with.

 

[tom73]

The situation isn't the same now as it was in March-April. The reason being simple, there's been a glimpse of what might be possible. Even if it does come with preconditions attached, simple albeit not popular with everyone.

The "NHS Heroes" even got two minutes applause on one night of the week to show how much they were being appreciated. That appreciation of how they worked has gone. There's a minority, who having had a taste of what might be available/possible with no restrictions on their behaviour, don't want to give up what they have.

They want the high risk groups, sick and elderly, to be made to isolate/locked up. So that they can now carry on as they did before this started.

Without the support the NHS had from the public in March-April, they can't hope to achieve the same level of response a second time around. The call for a return to "normality", the same as before all this started. The truth is, what ever "normality" comes along, it will never be the same as it was before. No matter how much folk insist it should.

I've mentioned my situation, but for me there's one person I'd love to know how they are doing. Diagnosed with epilepsy in January this year, two seizures in December of last year. With tests started on finding the cause, and possible trigger(s) in January & February. Then this came along.

They'd been told the worse case possible, SUDEP, and their only experience of it was what had been seen on TV programs. The classic grand mal seizure. They'd to surrender their driving license, needed for work. So job security was a major concern for them. If like myself, they've found themselves with no routine medical tests done to find the cause. How have they managed over the last half year.

What’s also not going help this time is the government has made it clear they have to get back to normal and still deal with COVID. To push it home they’ve brought back the targets. If they don’t hit 80% pre lock down. By end of the month the massive fines kick in. It’s just madness it’s as if believe COVID has gone away and it has and problem solved. Until covid is at levels that’s are minimal easily to detect and knock back. Health service simply can’t do anything at high levels. Some services have and can change tack. Drive in blood test, lung function test are examples. Most more complex ones can’t to any thing like maximum.

Even if the system can keep going this time round many of the staff can’t.

 

[DCLane]

Even if the system can keep going this time round many of the staff can’t.

Agreed. There's staff physical and mental fatigue which has set in. Leave carry-over is still there. It's unlikely that they can deliver in the same way as March/April.

 

[mjr]

BBC being naughty, bookending an item on breweries joining calls for a judicial review claiming no evidence the virus spreads at pubs with images like these of unmasked people hugging and singing - but is it fair?