Coronavirus outbreak

[lane]

Walling the city off, allowing no-one out?

Full lockdown is the only policy that has been proved to work. Everything else has failed to curb the spread of the virus.

 

[lane]

If I catch it - it will either be at work or at home. Either way the app won't help.

 

[raleighnut]

I am not particularly au-fait with the app, and maybe there are some clever algorithms which improve accuracy and repeatability with range, but Bluetooth is not a communications protocol which allows accurate distance measurement. I am amazed that there are bands of 0-2M, 2-4M and 4M+. The number of variables at play with the measurements that can be made which are a proxy for distance seem pretty big to me. In fact there are no protocols which run on phones which can accurately measure distance. There must be a lot of number crunching going on in these apps.

I hope that the app data is taken as part of a range of factors to determine isolation requirements - for example effective track and trace contacting and so on.

Yep lets just say you're in a car stuck in traffic and the person in the car next to you is diagnosed with Covid, you could easily be in range of their phone for quite some time but in a completely isolated environment.

 

[marinyork]

I am not particularly au-fait with the app, and maybe there are some clever algorithms which improve accuracy and repeatability with range, but Bluetooth is not a communications protocol which allows accurate distance measurement. I am amazed that there are bands of 0-2M, 2-4M and 4M+. The number of variables at play with the measurements that can be made which are a proxy for distance seem pretty big to me. In fact there are no protocols which run on phones which can accurately measure distance. There must be a lot of number crunching going on in these apps.

I hope that the app data is taken as part of a range of factors to determine isolation requirements - for example effective track and trace contacting and so on.

It depends what you mean by accurate.

Lovett et al. 2020. covers the method that it's believed the UK government originally was basing things on. The google API is less accurate. I'm not sure how you get around the problem of the lost information and instead having to substitute lookup tables.

 

[marinyork]

Yep lets just say you're in a car stuck in traffic and the person in the car next to you is diagnosed with Covid, you could easily be in range of their phone for quite some time but in a completely isolated environment.

Far more practically. Bluetooth LE if I'm in my bedroom or living room can be within 4 metres of back to back neighbours bedroom or living room. There's not a vanishingly small chance of over months that it never clocks up half an hour's worth of 4 metres within a 24 hour period (which includes errors). It easily travels into next door. Same problem at uni (which is interesting).

 

[tom73]

Full lockdown is the only policy that has been proved to work. Everything else has failed to curb the spread of the virus.

A 2m long cattle prod be more fun though

 

[classic33]

A 2m long cattle prod be more fun though

One disguised as a walking stick.

 

[marinyork]

Yes many new builds have paper thin walls at best. Unless you can set up reminders how many are going to remember to turn them off at work ? Most just but them in a locker and leave. Leaving your phone in the car may don't do it much good either.
It's going to be of little use in placers that even having a phone at work is a no no. Prisons being one of them it's not just just a big no no it's an offence. Even visiting police officers have to hand them over.
The other thing it can't work out is the direction back to back for example is much less risk than face to face take it can't work out if your inside or out either. So plenty of variables that you can't control.

Absolutely. It'd have been useless in my old workplace.

In shared spaces at uni, the app is reasonably practical solution (QR codes for areas is another one).

For a pub I visited, the new NHS app is a reasonable solution because it records times better and a discriminant on distance even if that has flaws. Bluetooth LE at least logs the time exposure and time for people in the same half of a room I was in - won't log the other half and certainly not the other rooms/bar room. Whereas it's alleged that track and trace are getting uppity and telling everyone from a pub in one day to quarantine.

And I've only been in pubs and cafes. Other venues would apply if they have a similar geography.

 

[lane]

A 2m long cattle prod be more fun though

Would be helpful at work I can tell you that.

 

[lane]

Absolutely. It'd have been useless in my old workplace.

In shared spaces at uni, the app is reasonably practical solution (QR codes for areas is another one).

For a pub I visited, the new NHS app is a reasonable solution because it records times better and a discriminant on distance even if that has flaws. Bluetooth LE at least logs the time exposure and time for people in the same half of a room I was in - won't log the other half and certainly not the other rooms/bar room. Whereas it's alleged that track and trace are getting uppity and telling everyone from a pub in one day to quarantine.

And I've only been in pubs and cafes. Other venues would apply if they have a similar geography.

Thing is I know who I come into close contact at work. I also know when they have had to self isolate and would also know if they tested positive. Exactly same as at home with my family.

 

[tom73]

Far more practically. Bluetooth LE if I'm in my bedroom or living room can be within 4 metres of back to back neighbours bedroom or living room. There's not a vanishingly small chance of over months that it never clocks up half an hour's worth of 4 metres within a 24 hour period (which includes errors). It easily travels into next door. Same problem at uni (which is interesting).

Looked up that paper and another come up just read it. The more you look and more it looks like a big set of errors before you start.
You bet me to it re uni was thinking it's going to be fun.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54268780
though the high number is down to a large out break. Imagine that happening every few weeks due to app says yes.

 

[marinyork]

Thing is I know who I come into close contact at work. I also know when they have had to self isolate and would also know if they tested positive. Exactly same as at home with my family.

I don't. Not for work, not for travel on public transport nor for other activities (although they've shut down face to face even though they are theoretically allowed up to 15 indoors under the latest laws).

If I was at my old workplace I wouldn't know who I came into close contact with, travel not an issue there.

My parents are coopers and not free rangers on the whole, although they attend a church. If it wasn't for that you could say with reasonable confidence who caught it off who. The church has already had people die of coronavirus in the spring.

 

[tom73]

NHS app now showing up in app store looks to have come early.

 

[PK99]

NHS app now showing up in app store looks to have come early.

download and set up is trivial.

 

[cookiemonster]

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong...g-kong-add-britain-high-risk-coronavirus-list

UK travellers will need a negative Covid test result before boarding and quarantine for 14 days upon arrival. From next week.