Coronavirus outbreak

[midlife]

So while Johnson is killing off the briefings on the main stage, the test and trace app gets quietly ditched over in the Lords. World-beaten to a pulp.

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/en...BjxZFBhePMZKM-PkUU2OzVoTnQRxPRRyP9_RztHLn86eN

Blimey, what on earth could they spend 12 million quid on ?

 

[MntnMan62]

I only hope lessons are learned for next time. With better handling and, now with experience, we should do better.

I'm really not hopeful they will do better next time though, they really are poorer than I could have imagined, and that's a depressing thought.

The only way lessons can be learned is if one is willing to admit that mistakes were made. I don't see anyone admitting anyting of the sort and in fact our idiot in chief has doubled down on his denial of mistakes by saying that he actually ordered the slowing down of testing. This is not a matter of doing better the next time. Far from it.

 

[Inertia]

The only way lessons can be learned is if one is willing to admit that mistakes were made. I don't see anyone admitting anyting of the sort and in fact our idiot in chief has doubled down on his denial of mistakes by saying that he actually ordered the slowing down of testing. This is not a matter of doing better the next time. Far from it.

That's kind of a problem everywhere, people equate admitting mistakes with looking to blame someone. We don't get anywhere unless we learn from errors, noone is perfect.

I have more respect for someone admitting doing something wrong and, showing how they are going to fix it, than some chancer covering their arse.

 

[Tanis8472]

Yes normal things everyone else as had to do. How it works for each pub lords knows and even with 2M now down to 1M it's still not worth some opening anyway. New rules are coming in to make it easy for pubs to have more outside areas. With a bit of imagination the small pubs could be helped a lot. The big boys will be fine but they are not the once needing help.

2 down to 1 with mitigation and only in certain circumstances 👍

 

[Unkraut]

our idiot in chief has doubled down on his denial of mistakes by saying that he actually ordered the slowing down of testing. This is not a matter of doing better the next time.

If you really want to be cheered up, a German virologist said it is only a matter of time before a virus evolves that will kill 10 or 20% of those who contract it, and that the reaction to the current one should be a lesson in how or how not to deal with these pandemics. We can only hope that the West learns from this in much the same way as the Far East, who have coped much better having made their worst mistakes during the earlier virus epidemics.

 

[tom73]

@Unkraut How's it looking in Germany now 2 areas are back in lock down since the 1st large outbreak at the meat factory?

 

[rualexander]

.... a German virologist said it is only a matter of time before a virus evolves that will kill 10 or 20% of those who contract it .....

We've already had them, such as SARS1 and MERS, Ebola etc.

So far, viruses which kill large percentages, do not spread as well as those that kill smaller percentages, possibly because they are so deadly and don't get the chance to spread widely before the host is dead.

It may be that SARS-CoV-2 is in the 'sweet spot' of being able to spread widely and kill large numbers.

 

[Unkraut]

@Unkraut How's it looking in Germany now 2 areas are back in lock down since the 1st large outbreak at the meat factory?

Needless to say this has been headlines for several days now. The rapid number of infections has jacked up the reproduction rate to R = 2.7, although for the rest of the country I believe it is mostly a bit below 1. There are two areas both meat processing. The TV has shown footage of the larger of the two and the canteen was a disaster waiting to happen. Forget any social distancing. Many of the employees are from eastern Europe and are scattered about in accommodation all over town. The working conditions are not that wonderful, and the social market economy here has been a bit too much market and not enough social.

The state government has reimposed a pretty strict lockdown, though only in the localities concerned.

 

[tom73]

Uk excess deaths now at 65,000. That trip to pub looking as good a deal now ?
Somehow i can’t see Witty dashing to the pub he was not that happy today. Or willing to play along with Boris.

 

[Wobblers]

Financially it really has been a disaster that will be with us for years, making the post 2008 financial issues look like a minor blip, the next few years are going to be brutal.

Not having any lockdown - not putting into place any measures to reduce infection - would have resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths. That in of itself would have severe economic consequences, to say nothing of the very real personal costs which would likely touch almost everyone in this country. Furthermore, it's becoming clear that many people take months to recover and many more suffer permanent lung damage. How much do think it would cost the economy, and the NHS, to support possibly hundreds of thousands of permanently damaged invalids?

Add to this that people will stop going to pubs, cinemas, shops, restaurants, work once it becomes clear that the death rate is spiralling out of control (an effect that could already be observed the week before the lockdown was implemented). This also has an economic effect. Not attempting to control the spread of this disease has economic consequences which are likely to be as severe as the lockdown.

 

[classic33]

If you are off to the Pubs, bars and restaurants remember it's not going to be the same of some time.
Table service indoors, and owners will be asked to keep contact details of customers to help with contact tracing.
So that then beings into play data issues and even if some have any way to take the details in the first place.
The odd one is placers of worship can open for full Services but no need to recored who go's.

Card payments, wasn't one of the conditions for pubs reopening cashless payments only.

 

[Wobblers]

We've already had them, such as SARS1 and MERS, Ebola etc.

So far, viruses which kill large percentages, do not spread as well as those that kill smaller percentages, possibly because they are so deadly and don't get the chance to spread widely before the host is dead.

It may be that SARS-CoV-2 is in the 'sweet spot' of being able to spread widely and kill large numbers.

We've been lucky, that's all. So far. Take influenza. The part that controls how lethal it is and the part determining how infectious it is are separate parts of its genome, and both may mutate. We've been lucky that a flu virus hasn't evolved that is both highly infectious and lethal. There's been two close misses - bird flu and swine flu. Both were highly lethal to people (20-60% fatality) but weren't able to spread easily. You might remember the furore over bird flu: that was down to the fear that the virus might have ended up infecting someone who already had normal flu, and a chance mixing of viral genomes producing a new virus that was both infectious and highly lethal.

There is no guarantee that the next pandemic (there will be one, it's just a matter of when) will not be worse.

 

[Gazjacko]

The measures are designed to expose predominantly young people who are less likely to be hospitalised. This is herd immunity by the backdoor. The rate of infection has slowed significantly and this only helps push the projected 2nd wave further into autumn or worse, winter with the associated strains on the NHS. Getting a few more through it now whilst there’s NHS capacity is a cynical way to serve the economic imperative to get us off support and back paying tax. And if you’re one of the ‘vulnerable’ groups, so be it, you probably, on balance, are a net drain on the economy, costing society at every turn. We (Government) will mourn you for a suitable period but in the end the herd is stronger, back working, paying tax and serving offerings up to our Capitalist god!
Cynical? Yes!
Those with money thrive on change and turmoil in the markets. There is no ‘crash’ for them. Austerity is something the plebs do. If they lose their home we buy it cheap, we cut their wages “ if you want a job that’s the new pay scale”, if the independent shop goes to the wall the multinational company is there to fill the space, local coffee shop becomes Costa/Starbucks, corner shop, Tesco.
We’re being played for mugs! Even the briefings with their choreographed Q&A sessions. Notice Boris takes the last ( in the memory) ‘good news’ one? Yes he’s been ill, but nothing from him during the height of the deaths so as to minimise association with the omnishambles of a cabinet dealing with something that didn’t just come out of the blue ( they were warned! Pandemic wise years ago, Covid specifically Nov 2019).
Rant over!

 

[MntnMan62]

I'm not sure I understand the concept of herd immunity. Is herd immunity something along the lines of expose everyone, once exposed you have a built in immunity based on the concept that once exposed or once you had the virus you won't get it again? Do I have that right? If I do, clarify this for me. Since this particular virus is one in which humans are NOT developing an immunity to it after exposure or contracting it. All we are seeing is some people get sick and others don't. But the concept of who is acquiring immunity has not been established and in fact studies seem to show that people can contract the virus more than once. So, if I'm correct as to what "herd immunity" is, how exactly does herd immunity help us as a species if building immunity is purely a farce?

 

[MntnMan62]

I have to add that at the beginning of this thing so many idiots kept saying it's not as bad as the common flu. Think on this for a bit. Using US numbers because I happen to live there, there have been 123,475 deaths so far. It hit us in the beginning of March, so that is 3 3/4 months. If you annualize those numbers it works out to an annual estimated death toll of close to 400,000. The common flu kills between 12,000 and 61,000 annually in the US. So please explain to me how the coronavirus is not as bad as the flu. Oh, and the common flu doesn't do a whole lot more than make you vomit for a day or two and have a fever. When you recover, you recover fully. With coronavirus, many people who get sick are left with permanent damage to major organs such as the heart, lungs and respiratory system, kidneys, etc. The flu doesn't do that. What the flock is wrong with people? Are there really this many moronic imbeciles in the US? I guess the answer is yes because look at who we have in the White House.