Coronavirus outbreak

[Wobblers]

Equally, there is data that only 1 in 5 of individuals infected are symptomless, which changes the picture considerably.

I have no idea which figure is correct. Do you ?

My source is the WHO report into the Wuhan outbreak. Yours?

 

[Edwardoka]

What precisely are the privacy issues with the app and what should I be concerned about exactly. What in practical terms will the government know about me that they don't already or can find out if they are that interested? I know privacy is good and all but in reality makes no difference to me.

Your location at all times, who you fraternise with (again, at all times).

And it's not just the government that knows, it's the provider who the government gives the contract to. And any staff who work for that contractor, malicious or otherwise.

If that contractor or the database is attacked and successfully breached, the location history of everyone who has installed the app and who they spend time with will be on the web for all to see.

I have some trust with some companies who have a track record of doing excellent opsec and infosec. That trust can vanish in an instant and can never be recovered.

Do I trust this government or whichever cheap ass company wins the contract to provide development, maintenance and support of this app?
No, I wouldn't trust them to install a wordpress plugin, at the best of times.

When Classic Dom is pulling the levers? fark no, I'd sooner stick my face in a meat grinder.

 

[lane]

Your location at all times, who you fraternise with (again, at all times).

And it's not just the government that knows, it's the provider who the government gives the contract to. And any staff who work for that contractor, malicious or otherwise.

If that contractor or the database is attacked and successfully breached, the location history of everyone who has installed the app and who they spend time with will be on the web for all to see.

I have some trust with some companies who have a track record of doing excellent opsec and infosec. That trust can vanish in an instant and can never be recovered.

Do I trust this government or whichever cheap ass company wins the contract to provide development, maintenance and support of this app?
No, I wouldn't trust them to install a wordpress plugin, at the best of times.

When Classic Dom is pulling the levers? fark no, I'd sooner stick my face in a meat grinder.

Thought so. "They" know where I am and who I am with big deal. It's not like I am a spy. Honestly it wouldn't be hard to find out the places I am likely to be and who with if you really wanted to. I am at home, at work, on my bike, with my family, with people at work, with the cycling club. Maybe I don't have an exciting enough life nothing to hide, nothing to see here.

 

[marinyork]

Neil Ferguson has resigned over breaking the lockdown guidance.

What a bloody idiot. Rules are for the little people.

He can inform the government and behaviour used to guide SPI-B . Notably he was motivated from being antibody positive.

 

[Edwardoka]

Thought so. "They" know where I am and who I am with big deal. It's not like I am a spy. Honestly it wouldn't be hard to find out the places I am likely to be and who with if you really wanted to. I am at home, at work, on my bike, with my family, with people at work, with the cycling club. Maybe I don't have an exciting enough life nothing to hide, nothing to see here.

Are you truly so bereft of imagination that the thought of literally any random person gaining unauthorised access to a system that allows them to see all movements of you and your family doesn't bring you even a smidgeon of alarm?

All of your movements and those of your family and friends being available on the dark web to all and sundry doesn't fire a single synapse?

It is trivially easy to imagine scenarios where bad actors getting their hands on this information could easily ruin lives, whether through the obvious ones like using it to burgle an empty house, abusive ex's stalking, people in toxic relationships using the information to exert control or the more improbable cases like blackmail, kidnapping, creepy weirdos etc.

Let me ask you a question: do you lock your doors at night or when you're out?
After all, if you have nothing to hide why would you?

While writing this post I got a feeling that this is an extension of the misplaced exceptionalism that has led to the UK surging ahead in covid deaths. "Well, I understand that others are concerned but I'll be fine, it can't happen to me. I have nothing to hide and I don't have covid and neither does anyone I know. What are the odds I'll get sick just from going to see my relatives?"

 

[newfhouse]

Your location at all times

Is this true? My understanding is that your exact location is not part of the dataset stored or transmitted. Of course that could be a lie, but there are enough concerns without inventing new ones.

Unless you have deliberately turned off location services, Google or Apple will have far more accurate and uncontrolled data waiting to be monetised. Your phone network keeps a record of your approximate location, by cell site and sector, even if you use a non smart phone.

FWIW my concerns are less about data privacy and more that this app lets the government off the hook. If you don’t use it you can be blamed and shamed, despite the lack of evidence that it will reduce infection. It’s a huge diversion.

 

[Julia9054]

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(20)30551-0/fulltext
This study suggests that allergic asthma may be associated with reduced expression of ACE2 receptors (that covid 19 uses to gain entry to cells) and thus may be a factor in reduced severity of the disease.
My take away message from this study is that I should get a cat.

 

[Rusty Nails]

He can inform the government and behaviour used to guide SPI-B . Notably he was motivated from being antibody positive.

"I acted in the belief that I was immune, having tested positive for coronavirus and completely isolated myself for almost two weeks after developing symptoms.

"I deeply regret any undermining of the clear messages around the continued need for social distancing."

He also called the government advice on social distancing "unequivocal", adding that it was there "to protect all of us".

in other words "I was an idiot and therefore resign".

At least he has an understanding of why he should resign, unlike Robert Jenrick.

 

[Andy in Germany]

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(20)30551-0/fulltext
This study suggests that allergic asthma may be associated with reduced expression of ACE2 receptors (that covid 19 uses to gain entry to cells) and thus may be a factor in reduced severity of the disease.
My take away message from this study is that I should get a cat.

That would be comforting if it turns out to be the case...

 

[tom73]

Not quite true for location information to leave my iPhone I have to deliberately turn it on. IOS has location off by default.
Even then allow each app to use it which are all listed and have to ask and alert you when they are using it.
Once your data is stolen maybe it make's you see things different. I protect my data as much as I can and everything
I can control is turned up to the max.
I'm one of the many 1000's who had my equifax data stolen as they had failed to protect it.
So now have to constantly watch my credit file and get sent alerts if anything happens.
Also I've to go though an extra step to approve any credit. Which not all companies let you do so can and has limited my credit.
I've had a few attempts at cloning my cards , a few go's to get into my bank account and an at least one large loan taken out in my name all via the info on my credit file. All this from data that is covered by law and is regulated handing over data on mass which is is outside the law and unregulated is a whole new ball game.

 

[randynewmanscat]

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(20)30551-0/fulltext
This study suggests that allergic asthma may be associated with reduced expression of ACE2 receptors (that covid 19 uses to gain entry to cells) and thus may be a factor in reduced severity of the disease.
My take away message from this study is that I should get a cat.

Get two, twice the protection and you can watch them play together.

 

[tom73]

https://www.jacionline.org/article/S0091-6749(20)30551-0/fulltext
This study suggests that allergic asthma may be associated with reduced expression of ACE2 receptors (that covid 19 uses to gain entry to cells) and thus may be a factor in reduced severity of the disease.
My take away message from this study is that I should get a cat.

Better tell NHSX then the app appears not have " I have a cat" option. When working out your exposure risk.

 

[DaveReading]

My source is the WHO report into the Wuhan outbreak. Yours?

I was quoting the BBC, but I don't know their source.

That said, I've also read a number or reports like the WHO's that put the percentage of symptomless infections much higher.

I suppose one reason for the difference could be how you define a symptom, for example whether you include something like loss of sense of smell, which is reportedly very common, or just count the classic fever/headache/breathing symptoms.

 

[marinyork]

"I acted in the belief that I was immune, having tested positive for coronavirus and completely isolated myself for almost two weeks after developing symptoms.

"I deeply regret any undermining of the clear messages around the continued need for social distancing."

He also called the government advice on social distancing "unequivocal", adding that it was there "to protect all of us".

in other words "I was an idiot and therefore resign".

At least he has an understanding of why he should resign, unlike Robert Jenrick.

I was joking.

This was what SAGE said (although we're not talking about antibody tests)

1. Those testing Antibody Positive (a) Failure to recognise and respond to symptoms of COVID-19 If those testing “Antibody Positive” believe they have no chance of becoming infected with COVID19 in the future, they may fail to attribute future symptoms of cough or fever to COVID-19. This would prevent them from self-isolating when ill and increase the chance of them transmitting infection. This may occur in all population groups, but would have more severe consequences for frontline health and social care workers, where failure to self-isolate may result in staff members infecting vulnerable patients and co-workers. Although in theory, staff should not attend work with fever even outside of a pandemic, in practice presenteeism can be high, particularly among healthcare workers [Webster et al 2019]

(b) Reduced adherence to transmission-reducing behaviours Hand hygiene and other measures to reduce fomite transmission will remain important regardless of antibody status. Failure to take appropriate precautions could lead to transmission of the virus between people. There is some evidence from previous public health crises that misunderstanding test results can affect adherence to risk-reducing behaviours. During the 2001 US anthrax attacks, some postal workers given a negative nasal swab result for anthrax incorrectly believed that this meant they had not been exposed to anthrax. Some then cited this as a reason for not adhering to their course of prophylactic antibiotics [Stein et al 2004; Williams et al 2001]. Lower adherence to risk-reducing behaviours such as hand hygiene may occur in all population groups, but is likely to be less problematic for frontline health and social care workers for whom hand hygiene is well established routine clinical practice.

(c) Seeking increased exposure to COVID-19 at work Some testing “Antibody Positive” may actively volunteer to take on activities at work with high exposure to COVID-19. This might include customer-facing roles or tasks within health or social care that involve greater contact with COVID-19 patients. This would be particularly problematic if the test result was incorrect. Conversely, volunteering to take on higher risk duties may be a valid position given a good understanding of the uncertainties inherent in the test result. As testing is rolled out and teams start to become aware of who has and has not received an “Antibody Positive” test result, there will be a need for employers to develop a fair policy to balance the tensions that may be at play. While this risk is present for all organisations involving higher and lower risk activities, the issue is likely to prove particularly challenging for frontline health and social care staff.

Seems it could beef up that section of the report as those antibody positive inviting people around from other households seems missing .

 

[tom73]

Remind me just what is this app all about again ? Something about tracking and tracing a virus ?
Well we may have a problem ...
It ask’s HCP's to tell it when they are wearing PPE. So not to include those interactions when working out your risk.
Which is possibly the most at risk interactions they will have. It's a bit of an insult to assume well you have PPE so you're safe.
If you catch it you never got it at work as the app say's so.
Not a HCP so it's fine .... well no
As it won't recored the HCP's interaction it won't recored the interaction you have with the HCP either.
It may as well have a option saying I can't catch it as I do my shopping wearing my "magic gloves"