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I suppose we ought to be careful criticising a country we have never lived in. But I simply do not understand Americans. There is a clear obsession with the rights of the individual and as little government as possible. Paranoia about any restriction on gun ownership as though this would lead to an unarmed population ending up living in a new Soviet Union. (I've read more than one actually say that.)
In this instance there is argument about whether the US government at federal of state level actually has the right to enforce social distancing, and close down whole sectors of the economy. Some in the UK are like this too - they don't or won't get it that this is for a medical emergency and that such a lockdown is temporary. Note the obsession with the death level which misses the point. The description of a society being under 'house arrest'. That would imply the population as a whole is guilty of a crime, but isn't the real crime ignoring the restrictions running the risk of spreading infection which in turn overwhelms the healthcare system, leading to loss of life ...
There are those arguing people should not accept the government financial payments because it might give the government control over you later.
It is perfectly legitimate to argue for the restrictions being eased more quickly to avoid economic damage that in turn will lead to massive health problems in the population months and years down the road, but not for outright rebellion against lawful government attempts to deal with the virus, and adults shouldn't do this in word or deed thereby setting a bad example for the 'young people of today'.
That's better.
kingrollo
Guru
I suppose we ought to be careful criticising a country we have never lived in. But I simply do not understand Americans. There is a clear obsession with the rights of the individual and as little government as possible. Paranoia about any restriction on gun ownership as though this would lead to an unarmed population ending up living in a new Soviet Union. (I've read more than one actually say that.)
In this instance there is argument about whether the US government at federal of state level actually has the right to enforce social distancing, and close down whole sectors of the economy. Some in the UK are like this too - they don't or won't get it that this is for a medical emergency and that such a lockdown is temporary. Note the obsession with the death level which misses the point. The description of a society being under 'house arrest'. That would imply the population as a whole is guilty of a crime, but isn't the real crime ignoring the restrictions running the risk of spreading infection which in turn overwhelms the healthcare system, leading to loss of life ...
There are those arguing people should not accept the government financial payments because it might give the government control over you later.
It is perfectly legitimate to argue for the restrictions being eased more quickly to avoid economic damage that in turn will lead to massive health problems in the population months and years down the road, but not for outright rebellion against lawful government attempts to deal with the virus, and adults shouldn't do this in word or deed thereby setting a bad example for the 'young people of today'.
That's better.
Its self regulation - with only a light touch from the state. Which sounds great but doesn't have much of a track record - you want to stay healthy - buy health insurance - you don't want covid 19 - practice social distancing
I had a similar argument about people clocking excessive cycling miles under lockdown - IMO if they wanted it limit it to 1 hour or 2 hours - they should have bloody well said so - 1 reply I got was "They've trusted us to sensible" - its hands on v hands off - "there enough PPE - if the hospitals use it incorrectly thats down to them"
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kingrollo
Guru
To be honest although I despise both of them - I think things improved when Johnson was taken out of the picture
As someone who had two in-laws in care homes until their deaths in recent years, all I can say is that council-run carehomes are as rare as hen's teeth locally and have been for years. They are all privately-run here in Suffolk as far as I can tell. In the absence of council-owned homes, the council can pay the fees provided you meet eligibility criteria but this will not get people into the better ones.
The better ones cost a fortune and the only affordable ones are those that have their origins in the sale of homes by councils (this took place years ago) to independent trusts with a strong social ethic. Even these have then gone through a series of mergers and private sector takeovers to become significant business players in their own right. Places in these establishments are difficult to get. We ended up with my father-in-law in a BUPA one which ate through his savings and house proceeds but we really had no choice.
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lane
Veteran
I suppose we ought to be careful criticising a country we have never lived in. But I simply do not understand Americans. There is a clear obsession with the rights of the individual and as little government as possible. Paranoia about any restriction on gun ownership as though this would lead to an unarmed population ending up living in a new Soviet Union. (I've read more than one actually say that.)
In this instance there is argument about whether the US government at federal of state level actually has the right to enforce social distancing, and close down whole sectors of the economy. Some in the UK are like this too - they don't or won't get it that this is for a medical emergency and that such a lockdown is temporary. Note the obsession with the death level which misses the point. The description of a society being under 'house arrest'. That would imply the population as a whole is guilty of a crime, but isn't the real crime ignoring the restrictions running the risk of spreading infection which in turn overwhelms the healthcare system, leading to loss of life ...
There are those arguing people should not accept the government financial payments because it might give the government control over you later.
It is perfectly legitimate to argue for the restrictions being eased more quickly to avoid economic damage that in turn will lead to massive health problems in the population months and years down the road, but not for outright rebellion against lawful government attempts to deal with the virus, and adults shouldn't do this in word or deed thereby setting a bad example for the 'young people of today'.
That's better.
If you want to understand it better then watch "Vice" which is on Amazon prime at the moment and no doubt available elsewhere. It's about Dick Cheney Vice president to George W. But also shows you how the average US citizen has Brainwashed by the far right.
kingrollo
Guru
My experience as well - mom had to use house to pay for care home was close on £1k pw we tried a few some even at that price some were rubbish (patient left on floor after falls - some just sedated 24/7) - eventually we found one that was ok - but even that went bust - sadly mom had died by then.
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
The death toll seems to be bad in care homes across Europe. I posted a few days earlier about Belgium sending the army into some. France has some on total quarantine, behaving like old isolation hospitals in the hope of keeping the virus out. Still the death tolls seem high.
I'm sure there are problems but is how they're run actually significant in how hard covid hits care homes?
Tanis8472
Guru
8 say no
5 don't know
That must be the labour and SNP voters then
That'll be the intelligent ones then 👍
mjr
Comfy armchair to one person & a plank to the next
- Location
- mostly Norfolk, sometimes Somerset
The BBC had the Shadow Health Minister on this morning asking about it so I suspect so.
Tanis8472
Guru
No
kingrollo
Guru
Read that piece I posted from the guardian - lots of people who CA in ambulance are not being re sussed (even though they would normally) - these aren't counted as hospital deaths - also if people arrive in to poor health - they are literally sent home to die - again they don't go on hospital stats.
The article tells a story of nurse being restrained as she wanted to perform CPR on a patient.
Every bit as bad as the secenes we were shown in Italy a couple of weeks back - but are now absent from uk newsreels.....
The article tells a story of nurse being restrained as she wanted to perform CPR on a patient.
Every bit as bad as the secenes we were shown in Italy a couple of weeks back - but are now absent from uk newsreels.....
