Coronavirus outbreak

[kingrollo]

I've got a feeling that's not how this is going to play out

In very much oversimplistic terms the people who are getting the financial support introduced during the pandemic are labour voters; lower income, gig economy, can't work from home etc etc

The people who would pay for it with higher taxes will be conservative voters: higher earners, comfortable retired. Again a gross oversimplification but on average, this is what will happen

Would you expect a conservative government to increase the tax burden on its core support to pay for the financial support those gig economy workers are receiving? Unfortunately in the realpolitik world, the answer is no

So I'm expecting some more austere years, NHS excepted

Whack it on VAT - which imo is a very unfair tax.

The NHS was shifting towards a glorified A+E anyway. If it isn't going to kill you we aren't interested.

If you've got backache, need a new hip or knee, - finance it yourself....
I agree it will shift more to that . NHS patient ?...."take a leaflet sir" .....

 

[mjr]

Just one of the big four supermarkets is shifting over 60 million cases of stock a day, every day. From supplier into their supermarkets. Just what kind of additional logistical management would you like? How much faster would you like the chickens to lay eggs, or the wheat to grow and be harvested?

We're told there's enough eggs and flour but they ain't in the supermarkets. That's believable because I can still get flour from a small shop 20 miles away but it's click and collect only because their shop is too small for both staff and customers under current rules.

Maybe the supermarket logistics is failing or there's been a decision to prioritise more profitable lines over consistent provision of staples or something else but I can't think of a reason that isn't basically supermarkets failing to meet the country's needs. Government should stop gifting trade to these failing supermarkets and support rebuilding the capacity of the small shops so more people can shop more close to home instead of queueing to get into the edge-of-town pox party sheds. Rewarding failure with NHS logistics contracts would be a farce.

 

[vickster]

Whack it on VAT - which imo is a very unfair tax.

The NHS was shifting towards a glorified A+E anyway. If it isn't going to kill you we aren't interested.

If you've got backache, need a new hip or knee, - finance it yourself....
I agree it will shift more to that . NHS patient ?...."take a leaflet sir" .....

Putting it on VAT penalises everyone who buys anything though?

 

[mjr]

Tesco released figures the other day, apparently 30% of stock was bought by 10% of their customers before lockdown..I guess that means 10% of their customers are TW@TS

Kantor said on BBC More or Less a few weeks ago that only 6% were hoarding, so that means Tesco has an above average share of the TW@TS market!

 

[vickster]

Kantor said on BBC More or Less a few weeks ago that only 6% were hoarding, so that means Tesco has an above average share of the TW@TS market!

Presumably you mean Kantar

 

[Buck]

Naw, it's a disgrace. They literally didn't care that many people are falling through the gaps, because they were afraid of it being used for fraud or people getting a penny more than they would otherwise. Sunak said as much during the presser where the scheme for self-employed people was announced.

In addition to the edge cases I outlined above, if you started your current job after February 28th you're screwed because you're not on payroll, the only option is to ask your previous employer to put you back on payroll or to join the queue for UC, a malign system designed to make people give up in despair.

As it stands the furloughing is simply giving public money hand-over-fist to rent-seekers, and we're expected to pick up the tab for decades to come.
Honestly, if this were France there'd be serious rumblings of revolution.

i don’t see it that way. Many of those receiving such support are working for companies who are in difficult circumstances. Companies without the furlough option would have folded and/or made their teams redundant. For example, my friend has his own business and his company has gone to zero income overnight. He employs nearly 80 people and as it stands he has a couple of months before his company folds and all of his people are out of a job. Not sure how that correlates to your post?

 

[mjr]

Presumably you mean Kantar

Yes. Damn you, autocorrect!

 

[Archie_tect]

I consider tax rates a pennies in the pound not a %. Guess it’s the same thing.

So did Ken Dodd, as he used to say... he thought it still was.

 

[kingrollo]

Putting it on VAT penalises everyone who buys anything though?

Agree - I was saying that could happen. Not that I think it is a good move.

VAT is a non progressive tax. So the 20% in money terms is the same for someone on 8k as for someone on £80k .
Putting it on basic rate income tax means those that earn more pay more.

 

[Buck]

Whack it on VAT - which imo is a very unfair tax.

The NHS was shifting towards a glorified A+E anyway. If it isn't going to kill you we aren't interested.

If you've got backache, need a new hip or knee, - finance it yourself....
I agree it will shift more to that . NHS patient ?...."take a leaflet sir" .....

Putting it on VAT penalises everyone who buys anything though?

I’m sure I’ve read that increases on VAT have a negative impact on those with lower incomes as a greater percentage of their purchases attract VAT

 

[kingrollo]

I’m sure I’ve read that increases on VAT have a negative impact on those with lower incomes as a greater percentage of their purchases attract VAT

If you buy something for £100 - £20 of that is tax - whether you are low earner or a billionaire....I m perhaps old fashioned and think those that earn more should pay more.....

 

[Buck]

If you buy something for £100 - £20 of that is tax - whether you are low earner or a billionaire....I m perhaps old fashioned and think those that earn more should pay more.....

I’m not disagreeing with you. Those that earn more, do pay more already but certainly there’s room to pay a little more in such testing times for us as a nation.

 

[Archie_tect]

Just been sent this article by a friend in South Africa- no comment on their politics or the accuracy- just wanted to see what someone qualified to peer review it thinks...

http://web.archive.org/web/20200405...ht-have-finally-found-its-secret-91182386efcb

 

[kingrollo]

I’m not disagreeing with you. Those that earn more, do pay more already but certainly there’s room to pay a little more in such testing times for us as a nation.

Yup - compared to private medical insurance - pay an extra £25 a month (for example) seems a bit of bargain.
Obviously it isn't that simple - but that would have my support - rather than cutting our public services to the bone.

 

[BoldonLad]

2-3% additional tax added to 20%, ie. 22-23% would be a decent starting point providing they scrap Trident... ie it'll never happen.


If you really want to get riled about waste... North Staffs Health was given to Virgin Health... and all the staff transferred. Virgin Health couldn't make enough profit so cut the staff pay grades down by at least one in most cases and made some of the more senior staff redundant [early retirement options]. Now, in the middle of the coronavirus crisis they have taken their bat home and stopped operating Nortyn Staff Health... BUT they insisted that the laptops that the staff used for community district work were returned to them leaving the, now NHS, without any IT support. How cynical and devious and utterly mind-glowingly crass is that? Richard Branson either knows all this is happening and authorised it, or doesn't and isn't capable of provid public services [I hate the insidious asset-stripping of the UK's public services]. Either way he deserves to be shown up for what he is.

I seem to recall a little adverse press relating to North Staffs, BEFORE the beard one was involved, not saying he made it better of course.