Coronavirus outbreak

[Proto]

Here’s my youngest daughter all ‘tooled up’ for a shift at her hospital yesterday. They’ve been struggling with insufficient PPE for a while, hopefully sorted now.

 

[marinyork]

Sainsburys have a guy whose job it is to disinfect shopping trolleys before giving them to customers, it's staggering to me that hospitals are less meticulous.

A lot of the same trolleys get reused again and again in rapid succession. As a hard surface the virus may live for 3 to 5 days on it. Some trolleys without distinfection might be touched by as many as 75 to 100 people.

I have no idea what people have told the supermarkets, but there are usually few door handle type contact points.

Disinfecting the trolleys is an extremely good idea for the time vs benefit.

 

[glasgowcyclist]

Sainsburys have a guy whose job it is to disinfect shopping trolleys before giving them to customers

That's better than the method used at Morrisons, where the trolley is only cleaned inside the store after the customer has collected it from the outside shelter.

 

[kingrollo]

Here’s my youngest daughter all ‘tooled up’ for a shift at her hospital yesterday. They’ve been struggling with insufficient PPE for a while, hopefully sorted now.

View attachment 514250

much respect - must be a worrying time

 

[tom73]

That mask look's a bit more robust than the other 3M ones.
As others have said the straps are pretty crap.

 

[Proto]

much respect - must be a worrying time

My eldest daughter is working today too, she now works as a uni lecturer but previously she was a ICU respiratory physiotherapist, so has been called back to do some shifts in Bristol. She admits to being a bit nervous.

My middle daughter is a police officer, also in Bristol, dealing with idiots every day. Probably worry about her more, tbh.

 

[Rocky]

My eldest daughter is working today too, she now works as a uni lecturer but previously she was a ICU respiratory physiotherapist, so has been called back to do some shifts in Bristol. She admits to being a bit nervous.

My middle daughter is a police officer, also in Bristol, dealing with idiots every day. Probably worry about her more, tbh.

Again - much respect. You must, rightly, be proud of the three of them

 

[PK99]

China is controlling the virus, At a price...

from BBC world service Asia pacific editor:

The US consulate in the southern Chinese city of Guangzhou has warned about discrimination faced by Africans because of fears they could be spreading the coronavirus.

The consulate said the Chinese police had ordered bars and restaurants not to serve people who appeared to be of African origin.

It has warned African-Americans to stay away from the city.

For several days, there have been reports of Africans being evicted from their homes, barred from staying in hotels and forced into quarantine.

With nowhere to go, some are sleeping in the streets.

China's foreign ministry has already acknowledged that there have been "occasional incidents and misunderstandings".

 

[tom73]

Two more Nursers
Maybe the CNO can now say just how many ?
I'll give you a clue you won't have enough fingers

 

[Johnno260]

That seems particularly farking stupid when an early symptom of covid19 seems to be loss of smell and taste! Presumably some of the infected never fit their masks right!

my wife has failed two mask trials in the goldfish bowl now, so yes but it was different mask types.

she is scheduled for a third trial in it now....

 

[marinyork]

@Unkraut what do you know about the three sets of antibody tests being conducted in Germany presently?

What do you know about this gangelt study where 14% of the population had had the virus (not that this is representative as they've had festivals and a lot of mixing)?

 

[Wobblers]

My son has just tested positive for Covid19 and is self-isolating.....he tells a very interesting story about his first day at a new hospital last week and the induction for PPE. He was 'shown how to fit a FP3 mask properly'. This was done by putting on a sealed plastic diving-bell type helmet and an odour was pumped which they had to taste and smell. He then had to fit a mask and go through the same procedure - if he couldn't taste the gas or smell it, he had fitted the mask correctly.

Now here is the stupidity - there were ten other doctors on this induction, each one had to wear the diving-bell helmet with no PPE and there was no attempt to clean it before the next person wore it. Perhaps Matt H could explain why NHSE is using this approach to induction?

FWIW, after most of the doctors complained, this process has been stopped.

In normal times, I could actually understand the diving-bell helmet: it is actually quite effective in demonstrating how to achieve a good mask fit. These are not normal times however. That no consideration seems to have been given to the cross infection risks of this is until very recently an indictment of the organisation of all levels of management. This failure of organisation goes right to the top.

It was clear by mid February that CV-19 posed a major risk of an epidemic in the UK (and that's being very charitable: some people on this thread such as @nickyboy spotted the danger far sooner). Thus, it was also clear that testing capacity would need to be ramped up and sufficient stocks of PPE brought in. Neither were done. The WHO mission to China reported by the end of February that all governments needed to make preparations. This was their recommendations:

1. Prepare to immediately activate the highest level of emergency response
mechanisms to trigger the all-of-government and all-of society approach that is
essential for early containment of a COVID-19 outbreak;
2. Rapidly test national preparedness plans in light of new knowledge on the
effectiveness of non-pharmaceutical measures against COVID-19; incorporate
rapid detection, largescale case isolation and respiratory support capacities, and
rigorous contact tracing and management in national COVID-19 readiness and
response plans and capacities;
3. Immediately enhance surveillance for COVID-19 as rapid detection is crucial to
containing spread; consider testing all patients with atypical pneumonia for the
COVID-19 virus, and adding testing for the virus to existing influenza surveillance
systems;
4. Begin now to enforce rigorous application of infection prevention and control
measures in all healthcare facilities, especially in emergency departments and
outpatient clinics, as this is where COVID-19 will enter the health system; and
5. Rapidly assess the general population’s understanding of COVID-19, adjust
national health promotion materials and activities accordingly, and engage
clinical champions to communicate with the media.

None of these were acted on. Had they been, frontline staff would have had sufficient PPE long before now. We'd have had more testing - and if we'd followed the recommendations for rigorous testing and contact tracing, we might have been able to contain this epidemic right at the bud. This lockdown, and many of these deaths, none of that would have been necessary had we got that right. If we'd had the organisation from the beginning. We didn't.

What do we have instead? Well, there's Hancock, blaming NHS staff for using "too much" PPE. He doesn't seem to understand that most masks are disposable. Even now, still he fails. This congenital disorganisation, it flows right from the top, right from Hancock and Johnson. Instead of accepting the blame, he harangues others for doing their jobs in circumstances made very much worse as a result of his incompetence. That is what really infuriates me.

@Brompton Bruce, I hope your son is one of the lucky ones who don't experience symptoms, or has the mildest of mild cases.

 

[MarkF]

We have two types of FFP3 masks , one is a top piece of kit, robust and well designed, the other is the 3M one, which is a badly made piece of garbage, no wonder the NHS gets through so many as a good % fail before a person can get them over their head!

I have had and continue to have conflicting information about what type of PPE I have to wear and when. However, as I said a couple of days ago, our PPE shortage is largely self inflicted. We have unnecessarily ploughed through a ton of PPE that turned up about a week ago.

 

[marinyork]

It was clear by mid February that CV-19 posed a major risk of an epidemic in the UK (and that's being very charitable: some people on this thread such as @nickyboy spotted the danger far sooner). Thus, it was also clear that testing capacity would need to be ramped up and sufficient stocks of PPE brought in. Neither were done. The WHO mission to China reported by the end of February that all governments needed to make preparations. This was their recommendations:

Aside from reagents and getting private labs in quicker, I don't see what the UK could have done on testing. It's relying on an invasive swab test that was bodged together by some clever chinese scientists that is probably a bit too technical to carry out taking a sample that is then frantically driven around in white vans for great distances and seems to have a much higher failure rate than the 1% false negatives you generously posted up thread. The double/treble testing of a sizeable minority of people (some needed) was apparently some of the UK's problems on PCR testing and why the politicians lied about it repeatedly. A major flaw is having to rely on this PCR test. More PCR testing would have bought us some very small number of weeks of time and taken massive pressure/worries off some staff in hospitals. In addition it's becoming clear that a robust regime is needed in care homes, probably second priority after hospitals such as ICU staff and patients in hospitals. Even with 30,000-100,000 tests a day there's not much 'change' left after those groups. The whole situation is ludicrous. It basically amounts to people shouting PCR all day long and a load of tribalism. The UK should have been doing about 10,000 tests a day on around 21st March and 30,000 tests a day by around 29th March and perhaps sometime around now getting up to 70,000-100,000.

In this phase we're in now, I've not heard anybody in the UK talk about proper antibody testing from blood samples analysed properly in labs as is going on in Germany and apparently other countries. This is in stark contrast to many on the thread including yourself who've downplayed it or just wasting time on frivolities. I can see this wasting weeks of the UK's time if it isn't done. Or more likely using data from other countries, eventually. Yes, the UK will likely have about 35,000 people die over months, but this antibody testing could save lives, jobs, mental health and a lot of time.

 

[marinyork]

Italy extends the lockdown, or whatever you want to call the set of measures, till 3rd May. Somewhat interesting given we are a couple of weeks behind.